LED Lights for your Clamshell Underhood

[LancePearson]

There are probably several ways to do this but I discovered on the Internet a drop in but all LED bayonet replacement for the two bayonet original incandescent bulbs for the under the hood lights which should use substantially less current. They are rather bright in place after I put them in. There are some members able to build them (Scottfab) and supply them with several led bulbs on each unit and I'm sure those are bright, potentially even brighter as well. They are also a different price that is much higher so to be sure you know there is a choice I supply the following data. I have no affiliation whatsoever with the vendor and have sent Scott a PM defining this for him as well. His may be better in some way as I am no electrical engineer...just did a drop in replacement. The light levels are at least equal to or greater than the originals especially after cleaning the dust off the inside of the lenses.

The only thing I should caution no matter what you do is that I did not realize the lenses were glass, presumably to handle the original heat of the incandescent bulb, and when I unscrewed the first one I did not have a soft cloth beneath it and my big fingers slipped and the lens hit the garage floor and broke so as soon as I post this I will endeavor to buy a new one and replace it. At the moment the half I could salvage is on with tape to keep dirt out.

The leds have six little button lights on each bulb and are listed and shipped at $15 a pair. They say they are 5,000 kelvins which is a nice white light and it is quite bright in place. I don't know the current draw but with led's I'm sure it's not a whole lot which along with being cooler should help on whether to switch or remove the fuse for a few hours worth of open hood work.

Here is the http://www.ebay.com/itm/280945644878?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

2x 211-2/42mm/4210 6 SMD 5050 NONCANBUS Under hood light White LED Bulb

Lance Pearson
Chester, Va
1991, #00682 ZR-1

[GOLDCYLON]

Lance can you post up a pic with no light other than the bulb? I would like to see how much light these bulbs put out.

Also will these fit in the console? Thanks GC

[LancePearson]

I don't know about the console as these are bayonette type fixtures under the hood. Go to the guys site and see what other lights he offers since he is an led light specialist and offers quite a few. They are listed on his site.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280945644878?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

2x 211-2/42mm/4210 6 SMD 5050 NONCANBUS Under hood light White LED Bulb

I'll post per your request the photos of mine on tonight in the garage. The ceiling flourescents are on in the garage...11 foot ceiling and two 48" two light flourescents in each fixture for reference.

Now, to find the broken lens my clumsy fingers dropped.

Lance

[GOLDCYLON]

Now, to find the broken lens my clumsy fingers dropped. Lance


Well the good news is they are the same in all C4s

[LancePearson]

Just purchased one on ebay that is used in good shape. Zip did not have it but I took the easy way out. Blanket under in future each time. As a big boat sailor I should have known that. Old trick when working on a fiberglass boat...put something soft beneath so the thing that drops does not hit, bounce and splash! In this case, crash on the concrete!

Lance

[scottfab]

It's always good to have options. As with LED TVs the prices are dropping. Two more years and I bet it will stabilize a bit.

There are several vendors for the same size bulb as the our Underhood Engine Lamps bulbs (bulb type 2112)
It all depends on what you what. Some of the direct fit LEDs (as the one OP posted) don't appear to post how bright they are in lumen. They say things like "supper bright". You have to do some digging.
The one the OP selected is 95 lumen @ 165ma. However I found some weeks back that I can get same bulb from a non ebay vendor:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/festoon/6451-led-bulb-6-smd-led-festoon/662/[\URL]

FYI - I ordered four of the above 6-LEDs and picked the brightest for comaring.
I did a comparison of the above 6-LED light to the 24LED lamp I'm assembling. The pic was taken at 12in away and both lamps using the same 12V. Surprisingly the 6LEDs use more current (95ma) than the 24LEDs (40ma). The reason for this I won't go into here. What the pic bellow does not show in a measured way is how bright each is. I use a digital camera in "auto" mode to see what it would do to the exposure time if the F-stop was held constant. Well as you'd expect the exposure was four times longer with the 6 vs 24 LEDs indicating 4X brighter.

http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=199&pictureid=2007

There is an OEM company called CREE. They have a new line of LED product called High-Brightness LEDs that I have been looking at.


http://www.cree.com/led-components-and-modules/products/high-brightness/5mm-round-p2/~/media/Files/Cree/LED%20Components%20and%20Modules/HB/Data%20Sheets/C503D%20WAN%20935.pdf (http://www.cree.com/led-components-and-modules/products/high-brightness/5mm-round-p2/%7E/media/Files/Cree/LED%20Components%20and%20Modules/HB/Data%20Sheets/C503D%20WAN%20935.pdf)


The newest of the line C503D-WAN runs at about 120 lumen. That is one diode doing that.
That is 50% brighter than all 6 LEDs in the OP's link.
To put that in perspective a 60watt bulb puts out about 800lumen.
Six of these new LEDs would be like a 60watt bulb aiming down at the engine. With two engine lamps that's like a 120watt bulb of light for about 10% of the stock bulb power. To put that kind of light inside the car would be annoying (to me). Inside you want a "night light" kind of thing. However, it's a different story under the hood. You want BIG light there. Imagine 24 x 120 lumen. That's 2880 lumen. The total with two lamps under the hood would be 5760lumen. That up close to the brightness of a 1000watt incandescent bulb but only a few watts used !.

Anyway let me outline some options.
I have been researching this for sometime now. Here is some stuff I found out.

Some vendors are about $5 for 19 lumen if you want to go cheap.


http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-vehicle-replacement-bulbs/578-led-bulb-9-led-festoon/237/

Or if you want brighter (150 lumen @ $18) but wider dispersion

http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/festoon/30-high-power-led-rectangle-pcb-lamp-w-festoon-base/839/

The next step up is the 165 lumen solution at $20

http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/festoon/led-product/1240/2890/

Or you can go with the variable load resistor type (40 lumen @ 190ma for $6

http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-vehicle-replacement-bulbs/578-led-can-bus-bulb--1-led-festoon/1264/2937/ (http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-vehicle-replacement-bulbs/578-led-bulb-9-led-festoon/237/)

But if you want to pull out the BIG GUNS
Here is one the will just barely fit and has 90 LEDs. The brightest of them all for only $20 (but there is some solvable mounting issues)

[URL]http://store.ijdmtoy.com/90-LED-Interior-Light-Panel-p/led_panel_sku93.htm


BTW there's a whole boat load of Vett specific bulbs for the inside but no hood lamp at:

http://www.carid.com/1990-chevy-corvette-led-lights/


In conclusion. I knew about all these options when I decided to go for what seemed missing. A low power LED with adequate light (200 lumen at least) Well, I have them and they are installed.
Doing the upgrade to 5760 lumen or some even submultiple can now happen at any time I choose. I can just swap out a few components on the board I have as prices drop.

[LancePearson]

Scot has provided even more information so you have more knowledge and several choices. It's up to you but my $15 for two is so far the least expensive thing I've done on the 1991 ZR-1.

What I put in works extremely well for me because I don't want what Scot wants. I'm not interested in searchlights or spotlights under the hood, just enough light to check the oil, look at the belts, etc. and I carry a targeted led flashlight for anything else and do garage work under better, non glare lighting which is what you will get if you go for really high luminosity "wattage" in these bulbs.

I don't know how familiar you are with LED lights but the ones I posted and have are quite white and much more than a nightlight, in fact, about the same as the original with a difference. The light you get from LEDs in non engineering terms is a somewhat directional light and not at all diffused in my terms. it is at 5,000 kelvins a very white light and quite clean.

It depends on what you want but so far the ones I put in instead of 2.0 amp draws per hour now are .330 amp draws per hour which is about an 80% reduction in current draw. I'm very happy with them and the photo I posted reflects how white they are. These are not dome lights but through the glass lenses are quite good. If you want to do surgery then go bigger with luminosity but for me, this has turned out to be a good choice.

I did find a like new used glass lens which is headed my way as well. Just remember to put a big soft cloth under them when you take them off in case you get clumsy fingers like I did and the lens gets away from you. They break on concrete instantly.

Thanks, Scot, for fleshing the info out as all of us will make whatever choice works for each. I'm glad you could put the current draw in!

Lance Pearson
Chester, Va.
#00682, 1991 red/red

[GOLDCYLON]

Lance are the inner screws the pair that secure the glass lens? I assume the outer screws retain the housings? GC

[scottfab]

....snip....

I don't know how familiar you are with LED lights but the ones I posted and have are quite white and much more than a nightlight, in fact, about the same as the original with a difference. The light you get from LEDs in non engineering terms is a somewhat directional light and not at all diffused in my terms. it is at 5,000 kelvins a very white light and quite clean.


I'm not sure you read my post like I meant it. What I meant was that I would not want anything BUT a nightlight type inside the car. Meaning I would not want super bright ones inside .
As for the "White" light you mention. I find that the most appealing thing about what is being called "xeon" light. It seems brighter but does cause some "weird" effects on red colored objects because it's not a broad spectrum light. I mention this because some do not care for that so the industry has come up with what they call a "soft white".
For me, I like the bright white.

I did find a like new used glass lens which is headed my way as well. Just remember to put a big soft cloth under them when you take them off in case you get clumsy fingers like I did and the lens gets away from you. They break on concrete instantly.

Gezz I almost feel responsible since my "unpublished" TechNet article mentions that they are glass and they are "keyed". (only go in one way). I sat on the article because the final design of the one I'm working on was not complete.
It's still not published but a direct link from here should work to see it.
The pics are of an unsealed unit. (no pic of sealed unit yet)
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/TechNet/tabid/109/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1750/LED-Underhood-Engine-Lamp-Replacement.aspx
Had I published earlier who knows, your cost of 2x $15 + the cost of the new glass cover would have been less :( sorry.
I did add a list of bulb options to that article just now.

Thanks, Scot, for fleshing the info out as all of us will make whatever choice works for each. I'm glad you could put the current draw in!

Lance Pearson
Chester, Va.
#00682, 1991 red/red

Hey, it's about the car AND the people. Something that improves the quality, reliability and chances for survival of the ZR-1 is all good.

The solution you found is a good one for most everyone. I do believe it is a tad shorter than a stock bulb (1.65in vs 1.75in) but that's doesn't look like it would vibrate out of position.

Also folks should be made aware as is stated plainly in the link to that bulb "Non-Weatherproof, Indoor use only unless contained within weatherproof housing or used in conjuction with weatherproofing products". Other than they spelled "conjunction" wrong it should be noted that moisture does get up in that lamp area under the hood. That's why I am hermetically sealing the assemblies I am building.
Personally (and with other for sure) I know this is not a big issue since I never drive in the rain :p
Good job!

[LancePearson]

GC...the glass lens is reasonably thick with a surface which spreads light versus a smooth piece of glass. It was heavier than I thought and that's why my fingers dropped it. Just toss a blanket over the engine then the two screws with their little washers which fasten the glass into the housing if dropped or the lens after you have put a bayonet based bulb of original or led type back in place if you lose your grip leaning way over, etc. just falls softly onto a blanket. The glass on each narrow end of the lens has a small indented bay and that's where the screws go to fasten, unfasten. I only took the lens out which gives you access to the bayonet original incand. bulb and to put a new led bayonet bulb arrangement in. Once in, carefully put the CLEANED lens (dust off the inside) back into the housing and carefully screw it in place and you are done. I think leds are polarized in the sense that they only work when current goes one way so try it first before closing up as you may have to switch ends in a bulb set of bayonet sockets. I used one end of a fuse puller to pull the original bayonet bulb out by the way...just don't do it when they have been on as they can be HOT.

With respect to lumens and luminosity compared to the original. I'm no engineer and Scot is technically very much more knowledgable than I am about all that but what I do think from my recent experience with this is the original round incandescent bulb generates both heat and light in the process 360 degrees around the core. Approximately half of that is projecting light sideways or back up into the housing and the underside of the hood rather then outward towards the lens and without a silvery reflective lining that I don't remember seeing inside the housing is wasted and is just amps turned into useless heat. In my view one of the issues with the original is not only the heat (amps) but that about half the light it generates is wasted. The leds that I bought are 6 little flat round dots on a flat base and when the current runs through them exciting the rare material encased in them to generate the white light in this case all the light projects directly from the flat base and as far as I can tell none of it goes backwards up into the housing and up towards the underside of the hood. So, it seems to me that an led setup with flat leds that has a potential of half or more of the original bulb is actually the same and if it measures in output the same as the original lumens then it is actually twice as bright. Most leds unless you get into bulbs are like that and they can seem much brighter than the numbers say. I believe what I have in is brighter than the originals already and as I said, I don't like the really surgical spotlights that are possible so these work for me.

How long will they last in the under the hood environment? Who knows. I do know that for four years now I have had led under cabinet lights in my kitchen under all the cabinets which are on full time from 6 a.m. until 10:30 every day of the week and are still going strong. I notice that virtually all 18 wheel truck taillights now are leds of one type or another...many boat trailer lights are sealed leds now and if those two environments can handle it with vibration, et al, then it bodes well for leds. Don't know what the heat environment under the hood will do when they are off and the hood closed over time but I'm happier not having a hot incandescent bayonet bulb under a fiberglass hood for whatever that's worth. heck, I'm impressed with the polypropylene that is the battery case not only existing but surviving and being reground and used again in the environment they are in: vibration, acid, heavy lead plates, heat, cold. Pretty tough stuff all this stuff.

I'll attach the replacement lens that is enroute to me, photo from the website so you can see the indents where the screws go. I did not notice outer screws but if there are some you don't need to take them out, just remove the lens carefully.

Hope this is helpful. Old sailors trick which I didn't bother with to put a big cloth like an old blanket under anything you don't want to lose as stuff falls, hits hard objects, bounces, flies around, breaks otherwise. An old blanket just stops it dead where you can see it.

Lance Pearson.

[LancePearson]

Scot:
"Gezz I almost feel responsible since my "unpublished" TechNet article mentions that they are glass and they are "keyed". (only go in one way). I sat on the article because the final design of the one I'm working on was not complete.
It's still not published but a direct link from here should work to see it.
The pics are of an unsealed unit. (no pic of sealed unit yet)
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Inform...placement.aspx
Had I published earlier who knows, your cost of 2x $15 + the cost of the new glass cover would have been less sorry.
I did add a list of bulb options to that article just now."

You didn't make big. clumsy fingers drop the lens. I did! This is not exactly the first lens over a bulb in my life I've ever changed either. You ought to try some of the ones on big sailboats where when dropped stuff goes "bounce, bounce, splash" and is gone forever.

The bayonet receivers in my two housings are very tightly together and very forgiving of any length. When you push them in they are in very tightly in my car's case. Since my fuse was out by the previous owner to keep the incand. bulbs off I really wonder if those lights have ever been on much. I kept the bulbs in with the fuses in the glovebox but I'm not really sure why as the new led's work well and have a whiter light at 5,000 Kelvins instead of the more yellowish red of the incandescent.

I'm sure your article will be terrific. In my case it's $15 for the pair of lights not $15 each and for that it wasn't much of a risk experimenting and for me it's been a successful experiment. new lens on the way as we speak.

It seemed to me that there was some type of gasket it sits in to keep moisture out as well but I'm operating on memory as they were only open for ten minutes max while I changed bulbs. Both screws also have a type of gasket around them as washers as well so there is some moisture provision.

I rarely drive either of my Vettes in the rain either.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Lance,

Thanks for taking time to post options for LED in our cars. I too have replaced my underhood bulbs with cooler, brighter, lower draw LEDs and was pleased until now. In most cases as you stated, it is enough and having a direct light source in an emergency will be what you need. I even ordered an LED headlamp to keep in the car. What you posted is definitely the best bang for the buck.:cheers:

Scott,

Despite all of the options, please count me in your option as I have seen over the years your technical expertise and trust what you are doing. For me, you can never have too much light. I even remember when at a Gathering a few years ago and there were issues on Rich's and Tom's car and a lot of folks were in the parking lot at night trying to get under the hotel's light to work on the cars. It is just me, but I love light even though with 28 years of service in the Army, I have become accustomed to doing things under darkness and low light. I don't know if I will ever need or even use the light, but I know they are there when I need them. From a cool factor I go to a lot of night events and would love to be able to show off the LT5 I worked so hard on for show purposes without worrying about draining the battery after hours. I know that you are not in this for profit and just taking time to offer up something to the brotherhood and it is greatly appreciated. Everyone has to make something for the efforts and research put into this; I can see a lot of thought was put forth. Thank you again. :handshak:

Craig

[LancePearson]

Lance are the inner screws the pair that secure the glass lens? I assume the outer screws retain the housings? GC

I just checked and, Yes, the inner screws on the glass lens are the only ones you need to unscrew to free the lens for access to the bulb area. I suppose the outer ones do hold the fixture in place but I don't know for sure as I'm not taking anything that works apart!

In College once, back in the Dark Ages, my All American Swimmer room mate and I "borrowed" one of the football field's light bulbs which must have been 1500 watts or something and hung it out the dorm window wired up and then plugged it in. You could have read Lady Chatterley in the courtyard until we unplugged it and ran like heck. Obviously, a borrowed dorm room as well!

[scottfab]

...snip...
From a cool factor I go to a lot of night events and would love to be able to show off the LT5 I worked so hard on for show purposes without worrying about draining the battery after hours.
...snip...

Craig

Exactly. The glass cover has a design which helps focus the light on to the engine. That together with a 15 deg LED set means more of the light is going where you want. Most fastoon type replacements spread have to spread the light out to 120deg because they are used in other applications. The cool factor is in the beam and quantity of light. The wow factor is being able to see all the dirt on the engine. ;)

I just checked and, Yes, the inner screws on the glass lens are the only ones you need to unscrew to free the lens for access to the bulb area. I suppose the outer ones do hold the fixture in place but I don't know for sure as I'm not taking anything that works apart!
... snip...


FYI There is no need to take the lower screw out. Just loosen it and take out the top one. The glass will then slide up and out. I use duct tape on the glass to hold it as I take out the upper screw. That is the duct tape is stuck to the glass such that you can hold the duct tape between your fingers to keep the glass secure as you remove it. Remember it's not very obvious but the glass is "keyed". It only goes in one way.

[LancePearson]

This made me laugh. We are all doing a collective phd on underhood lights on our ZR-1's! The truth is though that with the keyed and the rest it all keeps telling me the same thing...whoever thought C4's weren't much doesn't have a clue!

I took mine on my 90 mile nickel and dime ride today and you just have to come home smiling after a sunny day ride like that.

The duct tape is a good idea...will do that with the new lens when it arrives in a few days.

[LancePearson]

New lens arrived today and it took just a few minutes to put it in. Does not matter on mine which way you turn it as it is the same. The lights are very bright and appear to be very effective as led's. This time I did put a section of boat floor carpet over the engine under it and removed the top screw and just loosened the bottom one as Scott suggested and that worked fine. I removed the other one and washed the glass lens more thoroughly as well and that is probably well worth doing as there was dust on the ones in place.

all done with that project.

[scottfab]

I have deleted this post.
It did NOT come off as I meant it.
It's pure science to me, not personal.
My apologies to all.

[LancePearson]

The facts seem to be that the two sets of leds for $15 reduced current draw from 2.0 amps to .33 amps which is significant and seem to me to be brighter than the original incandescent bayonnet bulbs in my 1991 with clean lenses. Tonight I turned all the lights off and opened the clamshell hood and took a cell phone photo of the engine and the lights with no flash, just a photo. You can get a fair idea from the attached photo of what they do. You will not be able to do surgery but you will be able to see about as well or better than the old ones while reducing energy draw and the heat associated with it. It's just a choice and for $15, it seems like an easy choice that meets my needs. In LEDS there are tons of emerging choices and one member on another thread who will make a really bright set for you if you want to do that.

It's your choice. I'm all done and quite happy with the result that meets my needs just fine and only cost me $15 for the pair of lights.

[LancePearson]

I left it on for a while and now wonder just exactly how much heat each original incandescent 1.0 amp bulb would generate on the glass lens and behind it. These chipped dot leds are .165 amp so dramatically less but if you leave them on that's enough heat to make the lenses very warm to the touch.

I think for me the solution to any time I have the hood up for a few hours regardless of battery is to turn those lamps off. I may switch the fuse with a manual switch but for now I'll just pull the 10 amp spade fuse when it's going to be up all day or for days.

Electricity generates heat with any current draw as far as I can tell and I was a little surprised at how much. I also am very pleased with the amount of light from these. They will never replace shop or garage lights but they aren't bad....better than original and with whiter rather than yellower or reddish light.

[secondchance]

Thanks Lance, replaced mine w/ $15 LEDs.Actially mine had the fuse removed by the previous owner and I had been procracinating for the last 13 years.
Even with your heads-up, almost dropped one lense. With out your heads-up I am sure I would be searching for a lense on the Eb*y.
Thank you.

[LancePearson]

Thanks Lance, replaced mine w/ $15 LEDs.Actially mine had the fuse removed by the previous owner and I had been procracinating for the last 13 years.
Even with your heads-up, almost dropped one lense. With out your heads-up I am sure I would be searching for a lense on the Eb*y.
Thank you.

I'm glad someone learned from my clumsy fingers. Scott said another way is to remove the top screw and just loosen the bottom one while holding then slip the lens upward and that works but I still put a soft piece of carpeting over the engine and was double covered.

I'm happy with mine but will still pull the fuse for longer term clamshell hood openings. It's rather easy to do and save the fuse. My new (used but immaculate) lens is in place and all's well. Only replacing a speaker and the radio scratched face plus pull center console trim and check shift boots and put some sound deadening .080 adhesive plus foil faced urethane under the trim pieces to quiet it a bit to go. Parts arrive tomorrow. Getting there!