What's a "Economical" way to increase our Displacement????

[alnukem]

Just curious......what would be the "Bang for the Buck" recipe for increased cubes. Thanks.

[WARP TEN]

Just curious......what would be the "Bang for the Buck" recipe for increased cubes. Thanks.

I don't know how you define economical but Marc Haibeck lists prices and descriptions for all the displacement increases he does (www.zr1specialist.com (http://www.zr1specialist.com/)), and Pete can also give you an idea on displacement and costs. --Bob

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Two of the best guys in the business. Lots of options beyond what was once routine.

[A1990]

I think the short answer for the LT5 is...no, unless you can do it yourself.

[alnukem]

I guess I should have said the "most economical way"!!! I know there are no $699 Scat Cast Steel rotators & apparantly our stroker cranks are 4-5K. I guess that the most economical way is to sleeve the block & maybe offset grinding the crank. I would be more interested in how to get to 4.125" bore. I have also heard of people saying 283 SBC journal rods being referenced. Thanks....please give me some insight.

[Paul Workman]

I guess I should have said the "most economical way"!!! I know there are no $699 Scat Cast Steel rotators & apparantly our stroker cranks are 4-5K. I guess that the most economical way is to sleeve the block & maybe offset grinding the crank. I would be more interested in how to get to 4.125" bore. I have also heard of people saying 283 SBC journal rods being referenced. Thanks....please give me some insight.

4.125 bore (sleeves) is going to include side thrust angles that is going to require either Marc's billet "cage" or AES' closed deck approach.

I've been exploring that question too, even if just from afar. (The $$$ to do it at this time is "afar" cry from what I have saved up to do the upgrade!)

Quoting Pete: 391 cid is possible via the AES closed deck route using the stock crank. Rods...I dunno, but AES handles that "in the neighborhood" of $10k for the short block.

AES could give you a quote on the short block, but in addition you'll need some significant porting of the top end and heads, cams (likely) headers, and free-flowing exhaust to go with it.

By that time, you're getting close to $15-16k (a guess) for a 391. For about $5k more for a crank you'd have other choices from 415 to 441 cid; a BIG jump in performance for a "little" more scratch (to go the AES approach), and end up around $22k ±, IF you stay with the stock valves. Bigger valves = bigger $$$ still.

Bigger sleeves and pistons will get you in the 380 realm, and offset grinding will get you to 401 (at the expense of reducing some strength of the crank)

Bottom line? 500+ on a stock bottom, stock cammed LT5 is probably the biggest bang for the buck out there for the LT5, methinks. With cams and tune you're gonna be in the 440 to 450 rwhp area. At that level there are only a few (very few) cars on the road that will give you fits, based on personal experience (with mine).

Without more specifics, these numbers I tossed out are pretty fluid. As you nail down more specifics - far as what the REAL goal is - prices can be firmed up much better.

It's fun to ponder the idea tho, huh?

P.

[WARP TEN]

.....Bottom line? 500+ on a stock bottom, stock cammed LT5 is probably the biggest bang for the buck out there for the LT5, methinks. With cams and tune you're gonna be in the 440 to 450 rwhp area. At that level there are only a few (very few) cars on the road that will give you fits, based on personal experience (with mine).....
It's fun to ponder the idea tho, huh? P.

It has been fun to ponder these ideas, but I am going with your thought--the stock bottom/stock cam 500 package seems to be the best approach. So I have stoppped pondering and will drop it off at Marc's next week. :dancing -- Bob

[Kevin]

buy one already done

[Blue Flame Restorations]

It has been fun to ponder these ideas, but I am going with your thought--the stock bottom/stock cam 500 package seems to be the best approach. So I have stoppped pondering and will drop it off at Marc's next week. :dancing -- Bob


Flip for the cams and tune. You won't regret it.

[Paul Workman]

It has been fun to ponder these ideas, but I am going with your thought--the stock bottom/stock cam 500 package seems to be the best approach. So I have stoppped pondering and will drop it off at Marc's next week. :dancing -- Bob

Welcome to the "500" club!

Lots to be said for this level. 500+ is nothing to sneeze at

-you keep the "Nikasil" (factory) bore lining (good stuff!)
-stock cam = stock idle (read: sleeper!)
-best bang for the dollar
-mileage remains nearly the same

Porting really wakes up the LT5 - makes an entirely different animal of it! (shoulda been like this from the factory!!)

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/tech%20files/DynoLT510-19-10.jpg

One thing to consider is a set of re-grind intake cams to Pete's specs. If I had/have it to do over again, cams will be in the mix. Pete's cams have shown they reliably could bump rwhp by perhaps 20 hp +. With Marc's porting, you'd be in the "hood" of 530+ ish chp (something like 440-450 at the tires...Just a thought.)

Wecome to the FBI madness!!!

P.

[alnukem]

Right now I think i'm in the upper 300's RWHP in my car, I don't have the dyno sheet handy. I am happy now. I just like to know what to do if I had a failure. I have a C5 with a 427 in it....the extra torque is really sweet!

[A1990]

If you are going into the bottom, big bore (4.125) and offset ground crank is best bang for the buck to increase cubes. Still a lot of $$$ though.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

More never seems to be enough. If you have 300+ to the rear wheels now, just wait until you drive a cammed, ported car. You'll be hooked!

[alnukem]

More never seems to be enough. If yo have 300+ to the rear wheels now, just wait until you drive a cammed, ported car. You'll be hooked!

I know, I know.........Story of my life!!!!!!

[alnukem]

If you are going into the bottom, big bore (4.125) and offset ground crank is best bang for the buck to increase cubes. Still a lot of $$$ though.

That does sound like the right way. I am sure that the bigger bore would increase head flow "a lot". How much does the small journal/offset grinding gain you cube wise?

[Jagdpanzer]

When hooked on the quest for more power at some point to much is still not enough.

[WARP TEN]

When hooked on the quest for more power at some point to much is still not enough.

I think it was the late great Mickey Thompson who said "Too much horsepower is almost enough" --Bob

[WARP TEN]

Welcome to the "500" club!

Lots to be said for this level. 500+ is nothing to sneeze at

-you keep the "Nikasil" (factory) bore lining (good stuff!)
-stock cam = stock idle (read: sleeper!)
-best bang for the dollar
-mileage remains nearly the same


My mileage is not exactly the same as I installed 4.10s and it dropped a bit. But grin time went up.

One thing to consider is a set of re-grind intake cams to Pete's specs. If I had/have it to do over again, cams will be in the mix. Pete's cams have shown they reliably could bump rwhp by perhaps 20 hp +. With Marc's porting, you'd be in the "hood" of 530+ ish chp (something like 440-450 at the tires...Just a thought.)


Defintely was in my mind but then my mind noticed my empty wallet. And I have limited my HP a bit because I have decided to include cats (they soften the exahust note somewhat and keep the world just a little cleaner) and keep the dual mass flywheel, as I always pop the trans into neutral when I come to a stop or am in heavy traffic. Even with the thicker lube I fear the gear rattle would be too annoying. I can always change my mind at a later date on either of these things without huge financial consequence. And while it doesn't show up in the dyno numbers, the 4.10s help the engine to rev a bit quicker like the Fidanza does.

Wecome to the FBI madness!!!
P.

Thanks. Looking forward to it. --Bob

[Blue Flame Restorations]

My mileage is not exactly the same as I installed 4.10s and it dropped a bit. But grin time went up.



Defintely was in my mind but then my mind noticed my empty wallet. And I have limited my HP a bit because I have decided to include cats (they soften the exahust note somewhat and keep the world just a little cleaner) and keep the dual mass flywheel, as I always pop the trans into neutral when I come to a stop or am in heavy traffic. Even with the thicker lube I fear the gear rattle would be too annoying. I can always change my mind at a later date on either of these things without huge financial consequence. And while it doesn't show up in the dyno numbers, the 4.10s help the engine to rev a bit quicker like the Fidanza does.



Thanks. Looking forward to it. --Bob


I have the single mass flywheel. I had the idle set at 850rpm and the chatter is almost gone. I do have 3" Tri-Flo B&B though. Can't really hear much of anything. hahahahahahahaha Only the roar when I drop the clutch!

[Pete]

That does sound like the right way. I am sure that the bigger bore would increase head flow "a lot". How much does the small journal/offset grinding gain you cube wise?


Yes, very true bigger bore way better flow.
4.125" bore X 3.75" stroke = 401 ci

Pete

[GOLDCYLON]

380 bottom end with full top end porting including the heads and Long tube headers and petes cams = the biggest bang for the buck.

[Pete]

380 bottom end with full top end porting including the heads and Long tube headers and petes cams = the biggest bang for the buck.


Have to agree with GC 380ci is the most economical big inch.
Heck i spend almost the same amount and still have stock 350ci :cry:

Every Z should have a 380 ci
It would be like LS3 but the LT3 :)

Pete

[GOLDCYLON]

Have to agree with GC 380ci is the most economical big inch.
Heck i spend almost the same amount and still have stock 350ci :cry:

Every Z should have a 380 ci
It would be like LS3 but the LT3 :)

Pete


I'm so happy my second 380 will be done by march

[alnukem]

What is cost difference between 4.00" & 4.125" completed bare block job? I don't know why I'm asking, I am sure I'd have to do the 4.125.

[Polo-1]

Have to agree with GC 380ci is the most economical big inch.
Heck i spend almost the same amount and still have stock 350ci :cry:

Every Z should have a 380 ci
It would be like LS3 but the LT3 :)

Pete

I'm thinking more like LT5.3 :wink:

[Polo-1]

What is cost difference between 4.00" & 4.125" completed bare block job? I don't know why I'm asking, I am sure I'd have to do the 4.125.

$10k

4.00-4.020 $1,000-1,200 drop in LA sleeve. fits factory block. (368-382ci)

4.100-4.165 starts @ $8,500.00 block work (390-450ci)

For Me

If you want big cube go for the 380 then if needed more power hit it with N20

The LT5 really likes the cooling effect of the nitrous. Makes great power with 100-150 shot. RWTQ jumps well over 500 of a 350ci motor.

[RICKYRJ1]

What kind of hp our we lookin at with a proper 380? Any reliability issues with a offset crank?

[Polo-1]

A 380ci should be in the 475rwhp 430rwtq range. Better porting, intake cams...
I would think you could hit 500-515rwhp without too much problems.

Stock cranks have been offset ground forever. Most grinds are .100 as the normal cut. The LT5 offset started with Mike Ebert's 396ci motors, I think. The crank guy I used said it has a ton of meat in it and is a high quality unit. I went with 3.750 (3.66 stock) It looks like it can be pushed out 3.775 without any problems. The SBC small journal bearings come in .001 - .030 under size, so thats not a problem.

Like I have said before, I have done the MEGA $$$ 402ci build. If it were for me or anyone else, go for the 380 it's only a few hundred over the 368 build.

[Paul Workman]

A 380ci should be in the 475rwhp 430rwtq range. Better porting, intake cams...
I would think you could hit 500-515rwhp without too much problems.

Stock cranks have been offset ground forever. Most grinds are .100 as the normal cut. The LT5 offset started with Mike Ebert's 396ci motors, I think. The crank guy I used said it has a ton of meat in it and is a high quality unit. I went with 3.750 (3.66 stock) It looks like it can be pushed out 3.775 without any problems. The SBC small journal bearings come in .001 - .030 under size, so thats not a problem.

Like I have said before, I have done the MEGA $$$ 402ci build. If it were for me or anyone else, go for the 380 it's only a few hundred over the 368 build.

All very intoxicating, I must say. (Y'all got me starting to drool over a 380 w/ some cams now...:o)

I ran some numbers based on rwhp/cid for fully ported350s w/intake cams for those of us with "mortal" 350s (est. 450 rwhp) and Pete's insane 474 rwhp 350. For a 380 ci the proportions work out to between 489 rwhp (w/cams) for us "normal" peeps, to 515 rwhp for a setup like Pete's. (He says he keeps the magic formula burried in a Mason jar in his backyard. Maybe that explains why there's so many little pot holes in his back yard...Spoze?)

Anywayz... north of 480 rwhp would make for a lot of low 11-sec LT5s when the team ZR-1 Net Registry makes a run on the club trophy next fall! (But, unless I win the lottery, I'll just have to be happy with my 500+hp, Nikasil 350 (oh, the horror!;))

Fun topic!

P.

[Polo-1]

If you don't need a rebuild and money is tight, tickle that 350 with a nice 100-150 dry shot nitrous. Nothing like 3rd gear and given it a hit and having the 335's let loose on the street.

[Hib Halverson]

(snip)
It would be like LS3 but the LT3 :)

Pete

OMG...don't say that.
Calling it an "LT3" is an insult.

The LT3 was that awful 2-liter SOHC turbocharged thing that GM put in some Pontiacs back in the 80s.

[Pete]

OMG...don't say that.
Calling it an "LT3" is an insult.

The LT3 was that awful 2-liter SOHC turbocharged thing that GM put in some Pontiacs back in the 80s.


I hear ya, i called my buddies 427 LT5 an LT7 till i found out that was 1980's GM Diesel motor LOL

Pete

[efnfast]

We had one of those 80's GM diesels. Company wouldn't buy another diesel for 20 years. Now I'm stuck with 3 Ford 6 liter p.o.s.

[rkreigh]

I have a stock crank with one bad rod journal (not hurt too bad) that I would love to see go to a good home

could easily be fixed or do an offset grind


How does $200 sound?

shipping it would be expensive though. I live in alex Va

[FastMatt]

I think a stock cam, 12 to 1, 441 cid with a dry 175 dry shot would be fun, Idle probably better then stock.

I wonder what a stock cam 441 would cost...:)

[Polo-1]

over $12k for just block and crank alone :frown:

[FastMatt]

over $12k for just block and crank alone :frown:


chunk-o-change thats for sure

speed costs money, how fast you want to go?

[Blue Flame Restorations]

It's only $$$$. If you don't spend it on GO FAST, you'll just spend it on something else............LOL;)

[WARP TEN]

It's only $$$$. If you don't spend it on GO FAST, you'll just spend it on something else............LOL;)


My parents lived in Naples FL for many years. In the window of a small travel agency there was a sign: "If you don't fly First Class, your heirs will". Live it up! -- Bob

[ZZZZZR1]

My parents lived in Naples FL for many years. In the window of a small travel agency there was a sign: "If you don't fly First Class, your heirs will". Live it up! -- Bob

Bob

Awesome quote!!!!!

:cheers:

David

[WARP TEN]

Bob

Awesome quote!!!!!

:cheers:

David

Thanks David. I like that one. I myself am flying First Class with Marc H this winter and if my wife finds out there will be heirs to deal with!--Bob

[USAFPILOT]

Buy another car with a bigger engine.