Electrical Problem Need Help

[nelson007]

Hello All,
Took my ZR1 out yesterday to run some errands. Here’s what happened. First the radio started cutting out, I knew I wasn’t out of range because the radio towers are local. Than I noticed the BRIGHT LIGHT SYMBOL stared coming on and off the same time I lost the radio. I also noticed when I put my turn signal on the BRIGHT LIGHT SYMBOL also comes on. It cane on left and right. At one time after stopping at Stop Sign, when I started to go every thing went dead, although it did start back up immediately. The ‘ABS’ light also came on a couple of times.
I think it might be something shorting out in the steering column. I think I will start there, and suggestions would be appreciated, this is my first ZR1.
By the way last Friday I had left my parking lights on and the battery was dead on Saturday. It charged up and all was well.
Thanks

Nelson
1993 Ruby
WAZOO

[DaveK]

It could be a battery issue. With modern batteries if they go completely flat they never come back fully in my experience.

From what I know it's something to do with the way the batteries are constructed. They're designed to give a very flat (constant) output so they work nicely with the computers but this makes them vulnerable to the effect I mention above.

Dave

[Blue Flame Restorations]

It could be a battery issue. With modern batteries if they go completely flat they never come back fully in my experience.

From what I know it's something to do with the way the batteries are constructed. They're designed to give a very flat (constant) output so they work nicely with the computers but this makes them vulnerable to the effect I mention above.

Dave

I agree with Dave.

I'm sure an "expert" will chime in any minute though..............

[nelson007]

Do you think by allowing my battery to go dead could of caused the break down of the battery? When installing a new battery do I have to worry about programming anything? I forgot to mention I do have Marc's chip in the car.
By the way the car did start up like it always does very fast. I was reading 14.4 volts on the gauge. I will check and see how old the battery is, I just bought the car a couple of months ago.
Thanks,
Nelson007

WAZOO

[mike100]

I finally had the SYS message flashing 3-times issue when I left my doors open, and other circuits live-also during the first really cool night here where I live. Battery was low enough that I had to drive it 10 minutes before it charged itself to a high enough voltage and had reserve to prevent the load dips.

when random circuits light up, halfway light up etc, it is often an open circuit on the ground side and maybe some current trying to find a path to ground through other circuits/lamps.

[scottfab]

A good place to start is the simplest.
Check the battery connectors. Grab the two large gauge wires
and try to turn them on the post bolt. They should be very hard to
turn. Tighten as needed.

Second do a battery load test. Batteries have not changed much it's the
requirements of the cars that have. However, these batteries are not
"deep cycle" batteries so doing a complete drain on them is really hard on them. A new battery (actually new not just new off the self after sitting for months) will take three or so complete drains before they have lost enough capacity as to be useless in a Z.
Most auto stores will do a free load test. This test puts a heavy load on the battery for 10sec or so and looks at how low the voltage goes. The higher the amp hour rating the longer the voltage will stay up.

Lastly if the first two are ruled out. Start looking at grounds. First
the battery ground then the ones at the rear of the motor at the top of where the tranny mounts.

[Paul Workman]

Hello All,
Took my ZR1 out yesterday to run some errands. Here’s what happened. First the radio started cutting out, I knew I wasn’t out of range because the radio towers are local. Than I noticed the BRIGHT LIGHT SYMBOL stared coming on and off the same time I lost the radio. I also noticed when I put my turn signal on the BRIGHT LIGHT SYMBOL also comes on. It cane on left and right. At one time after stopping at Stop Sign, when I started to go every thing went dead, although it did start back up immediately. The ‘ABS’ light also came on a couple of times.
I think it might be something shorting out in the steering column. I think I will start there, and suggestions would be appreciated, this is my first ZR1.
By the way last Friday I had left my parking lights on and the battery was dead on Saturday. It charged up and all was well.
Thanks

Nelson
1993 Ruby
WAZOO

Assuming 14.4 volts (on the "gauge") tells me the alternator is charging. So, I think we can delete concerns for the charging system.

The fact that all these things are occuring when voltage (you say) was at 14.4VDC (engine running), is a classic ground-related issue (as others have suggested). There are a couple of ground locations that affect multiple, otherwise un-related circuits (which does sound like what you're having). Both of these are the on either side of top center at the periphery of the clutch bell housing. Each ground connection has several circuit ground lugs attached. I'd want to know those connections were clean and properly torqued down before proceeding.

Note: You might be able to assess whether either of those bolt locations are tight w/o pulling the drive shaft and lowering the transmission tail far enough to see those grounds and accessing them. Good luck on that. Otherwise removing the C-beam and pulling the drive shaft might be necessary to access and service those bolts. Others may differ, but I've got fat fingers and so....

P.

[WARP TEN]

A good place to start is the simplest.
Check the battery connectors. Grab the two large gauge wires
and try to turn them on the post bolt. They should be very hard to
turn. Tighten as needed.

Second do a battery load test. Batteries have not changed much it's the
requirements of the cars that have. However, these batteries are not
"deep cycle" batteries so doing a complete drain on them is really hard on them. A new battery (actually new not just new off the self after sitting for months) will take three or so complete drains before they have lost enough capacity as to be useless in a Z.
Most auto stores will do a free load test. This test puts a heavy load on the battery for 10sec or so and looks at how low the voltage goes. The higher the amp hour rating the longer the voltage will stay up.

Lastly if the first two are ruled out. Start looking at grounds. First
the battery ground then the ones at the rear of the motor at the top of where the tranny mounts.

Scott's advice is all sound (as usual). Here also is a link to Marc Haibeck's website regarding battery care: http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/battery%20care.htm --Bob

[nelson007]

Thank All for all your help.
Paul can I reach up reach up and feel these cables next to the bell housing? I will put on the lift tomorrow and start cleaning all the cables I can get to.
Does anyone think it would be something loose in the steering column?

Thanks,
Nelson007

[scottfab]

....snip..
Does anyone think it would be something loose in the steering column?

Thanks,
Nelson007

I can't imagine how. If there were a short you'd be looking at a blown fuse.
With the plenum off you can get at the two grounding bolts. I wouldn't start there though without ruling out the other easy to get at areas.

[nelson007]

Your right, I will do all the simple things first. At first I did not think it would have anything to do with the battery because it starts great.
Thanks.
Nelson007

[nelson007]

I did not have time to check out anything on the car today. When I originally found out I had a electrical problem it was during day light hours. I just had to move the car with the head lights on. When I backed up all OK. But as soon as I started to pull forward and pull the clutch out the headlights had dimmed and the bright symbol came on. It did not do it when I backed up the car. I will start checking things out tomorrow. Does this latest symptom mean anything to anyone?

Thanks in advance,

Nelson007

[mike100]

random incandescent lamps turning on and a dim headlight output are screaming bad ground on the main cable.

do a voltage drop test across the battery post to the next connection point.

[Paul Workman]

random incandescent lamps turning on and a dim headlight output are screaming bad ground on the main cable.

do a voltage drop test across the battery post to the next connection point.

Dittos on grounding!

My FSM is not handy, but soon as it is, I have an "itch" that needs a scratch!

P.

[nelson007]

Thanks Mike,
Are the main cables runs start from the battery? Is there any particular places that I should check?
Thanks again,
Nelson007

[nelson007]

Follow up,
I removed the battery from the car. I did a load test on it and it checked out OK. I started cleaning and wire brushing all the cables in the battery compartment.
What ever wire I could get to was cleaned in the engine compartment. Did not see any signs of corrosion. I took it for a test ride and at first all looked OK. Than it started again. The bright light symbol came on as soon as I let the clutch out in first gear. At first I thought maybe had to do something with releasing of the clutch. But I than tried the same thing in reverse and the bright light symbol did not come on. Just for the hell of it I went and bought a new battery. After putting the battery in, it still did not make a difference.
Can someone tell where the cables go when they leave the battery.
Will put the car on the lift today and see what I can find underneath.
Any other places to check, or do please let me know.
Thanks In Advance,
Nelson007

[SteelBlueZR1]

Hi Nelson,
Sorry to hear you are having this issue on your new Ruby Z. i think the advice on checking and cleaning the ground on top of the transmission tunnel is sound based on what I've read and seen at Wazoo maintenance days. The location of the car's many chassis grounds are listed in the Factory Service Manual, but Jim and Wazoo can show you some tricks to get to the grounds, which can be tough to locate. I watched with amazement as they managed to tighten the ground on top of the trans without dropping the trans to solve a Z with electrical issues similiar to yours.
If you haven't yet bought the Service Manual, you should, as the diagnostic flow charts and ground location details will make this much easier.http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/corvette-photos/data/553/6073IMGA00191.JPG

[captcorvette]

Quick question. Do you use the steering wheel to help you get in and out of the car? I have heard of some issues with pinching wires under the steering column. Indeed I have been chasing electrical problems for a couple of years now. Due to a front right accident, my stupidity (water on the engine---yep wanted to work on a clean engine), letting someone else remove the steering column etc. etc. I made more problems than I solved. Recently was able to isolate several electrical problems but the big one turned out to be pinched wires in the steering column. Had horns shorted, one turn light shorted, headlight motors, high beam indication on and off, dimming radio lights, dash lights dimming and then coming on correctly at times. It has been an expensive and laborious exercise but have finally managed to get a handle on wiring. Just might be something for you to look at especially if you or the previous owner used the steering wheel to get in and out of the car. Worth considering.

[nelson007]

Thanks Bert that sure will be helpful. I ordered the manuals and have not received them yet.

Captcorvette, I do use the steering wheel sometimes getting out. I just had back surgery 6 weeks ago.

Thanks for all your help.

[captcorvette]

I started using the steering wheel of my cars to help me get out right after a near fatal accident 5 years ago. I use a short broom handle or shortened cane to help me get out of the cars comfortably now. But with the wires re-installed in the wrong position any force on the wheel including just adjusting the tilt was giving the wiring fits and increasing my 4 letter word vocabulary. Good luck and this is the right place to get help as this group of folks are the most helpful I have ever found and unlike me they are very knowledgeable. :handshak:
Wayne

[scottfab]

I started using the steering wheel of my cars to help me get out right after a near fatal accident 5 years ago. I use a short broom handle or shortened cane to help me get out of the cars comfortably now. But with the wires re-installed in the wrong position any force on the wheel including just adjusting the tilt was giving the wiring fits and increasing my 4 letter word vocabulary. Good luck and this is the right place to get help as this group of folks are the most helpful I have ever found and unlike me they are very knowledgeable. :handshak:
Wayne

I don't want to hijack this thread but a new tread with pics and arrows showing this steering wheel issue would no doubt be of great value.

As for the OP. It's time to make some measurements. OR shotgun all grounds.
Nelson, if you can get the Bright Light symbol to come on and have access to volt meter and a FSM then some deductive reasoning can be used by measuring voltage drops at various locations.
Another approach could be to get the Bright Light symbol to come on and then mess around with the steering wheel (lower, raise and/or wiggle) in an attempt to get the Bright Light symbol to go out.
Either way leveraging the Bright Light symptom is high leverage.

[nelson007]

Hello Scotfab,
I have been in garage most of the day cleaning any ground cable that I could find. I even removed the door sills thinking there might be something behind them. Still have the same problem. I haven't checked any wires under the dash yet.
Scot the only way I can get the Bright Light Symbol to come on, is having the engine running put it in first gear and when I let the clutch out it comes on and if I have the lights on they go dim for a second.
What next !!!!

Thanks
Nelson007

[scottfab]

Hello Scotfab,
....snip...
Scot the only way I can get the Bright Light Symbol to come on, is having the engine running put it in first gear and when I let the clutch out it comes on and if I have the lights on they go dim for a second.
What next !!!!

Thanks
Nelson007

Well trying to simplify the elements of the cause would be first.
Try various other combos that do not involve putting in gear.
Putting it in first is the tough one.
If nothing else works .....
This will take a bit of time but:
1. jack up and back end and put it up on jacks.
Put jacks in the recommended places.
2. Get some blocks in front of the front wheels. Make sure the rear wheels are hanging free with emergency brake off.
3. You're about to have the rear wheels spin so keep everything clear.
Letting the car spin the rear wheels with them hanging for a long term is not good. But to isolate it'll be fine.
4. Do the needful... start, 1st gear, etc
Get the Bright Light symbol to come on. (if it won't stop the engine do not go further. no sense in continuing)
5. Slowly get out (or have someone else assist) being careful not
to touch the spinning wheel.
6. Measure the voltage drop between the engine block and the frame.
It should be <0.2v or so. If you see more try grounding the block with a separate wire to confirm loss of ground to the engine.

After all this if no progress time to reset and formulate a now plan.

[nelson007]

Thanks Scott,
I will try that later on today. After checking a lot of the different ground points yesterday with out seeing and rust or bad or corroded connections. I did not have time but I was going to connect a jumper cable to battery ground and than run it to different ground points to see if it makes a change. That how I do it on my C1s and 2's. I will still have to have the rear jacked up while doing this test.
I will let you know what I find.
Thanks,
Nelson 007

[scottfab]

Thanks Scott,
I will try that later on today. After checking a lot of the different ground points yesterday with out seeing and rust or bad or corroded connections. I did not have time but I was going to connect a jumper cable to battery ground and than run it to different ground points to see if it makes a change. That how I do it on my C1s and 2's. I will still have to have the rear jacked up while doing this test.
I will let you know what I find.
Thanks,
Nelson 007

I'd caution against relying on visual inspection especially when it comes to
aluminum. Loosening and re-tightening is a great temp fix.
I'd do that before any jacking up stuff.
The ones at the top of the bell housing can be done with the proper extensions from under the car. Also from above if you remove the plenum.

[nelson007]

Good Morning Scott,
Every connection I could find I removed the wires and wire brushed all connectors including the screw. I only saw one location on the passenger side of the bell housing. I held back doing that one due to the fact if I dropped the screw or wires I would not be able to put them back in. Maybe I will just loosen the connection and spray some cleaner into the connection. I did the two next to kick panels also. Are you aware of any other grounds under the dash?
Thanks,
Nelson

[scottfab]

Good Morning Scott,
Every connection I could find I removed the wires and wire brushed all connectors including the screw. I only saw one location on the passenger side of the bell housing. I held back doing that one due to the fact if I dropped the screw or wires I would not be able to put them back in. Maybe I will just loosen the connection and spray some cleaner into the connection. I did the two next to kick panels also. Are you aware of any other grounds under the dash?
Thanks,
Nelson

I don't think this is being communicated well. The grounds that I'm referring to would be on the block at the back of the engine and the side of the engine on the driver's side. Also the junction point for 12v near the battery next to the body panel. I'm not aware of any grounding issues that have surface in the interior.

[nelson007]

Thanks Scott,
I knew you were talking about the main grounds on the block. I was able to get to the passenger side of the bell housing. It took a variety of sockets and flex sockets and extensions. I have never removed the Plentum, I think I will wait for the next WAZOO maintenance day and check those. The negative run from the battery does that go directly to the engine block or to the bell housing?

Thanks,
Nelson