Fuel opinion and additives

[Corbusa]

Guys what is your personal opinion on fuel additives ? Here's why I ask..I have always used Marvel Mystery Oil. An old mechanic told me when I was a teenager to use it and I always have,, I do know I sold a chevy truck that had a 350 SB. when I sold it , it had over 400K and never been torn down , ( I actually sold it to a friend) he later changed the valve cover gaskets and said the inside of the engine was spotless . All I've ever used was Mobil 1 and Mystery oil.. I sold him the truck 5+ years ago and it still runs strong. starting to use a lil oil but still....... So I've also been putting it in my fuel in the ZR.. I'm just hoping it will counter the effects of the corn syrup their adding to the fuels.
Just wanted your opinions..

[Pete]

A friend put it in his BMW 325i and swears by it
He said he saw icrease in MPG.
Maybe he'll post up

Pete

[Corbusa]

Thanks Pete. I'm still on hold as far as travel /work. TTYS

[Corbusa]

Hey Paul, I'm using the AMO hi-zinc . From what I can see it is the best .. I'm basically using the marvel oil in the fuel .. Thanks for the info...

[Kevin]

not to hijack the thread, but where can one get the zddp additive to add in? I don't think the oil I put in has enought zink in it

[1990 quasar blue]

Kevin, I've read a few articles on the additive and a lot of people are saying the high detergent oils won't allow the additive to adhere where it needs to. I've switched to Valvoline vr1 10w30. It's the correct weight and has enough zddp. Best of all Napa and advance stock it. With that being said the best price for the additive is eBay or Amazon.

[nelson007]

I use Engine Armour in all my Corvette's. In 1968 427/435, 70 LT1, 70 L46 and my 1960. Have not tried in my ZR1. Just bought it a couple of weeks ago.

Nelson007

http://enginearmour.com/

[Paul Workman]

not to hijack the thread, but where can one get the zddp additive to add in? I don't think the oil I put in has enought zink in it

Best is to buy the oil with it in there already - to avoid chemical incompatability problem (this according to a write up I read by a leading oil manufacturer.)

The Amsoil AMO 10W-40 is one, but there are others.

P.

[Corbusa]

I just use Amsoil .
But heres a copy from another corvette forum about VR1
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/1646912-vr1-racing-oil-isnt-the-oil-we-thought-it-was.html

[xlr8nflorida]

I have used MM oil in LS1, LT1 & LT-5 and especially the RX-7 Rotary.

For Storage, I was running a mix of:

Ethanol Free Fuel High Test Fuel
Chevron Techron
MM Oil

My Tune is from SGC & Haibeck. The 16 injectors are OEM original.

I noticed that if the fuel sat for a few months. It formed a few odd little red dots in the fuel. It really was not big deal. My only guess is the MM had a reaction with Chevron Techron or I might have had a Lucas in there.

Regardless, I think running some MM through your fuel is a good idea. For sitting cars over extended periods of time, I use the following:

Ethanol Free High Test Fuel
Chevron Techron Inj/Fuel Cleaner

I empty the tank driving or drain it manually every 90 days.

[1990 quasar blue]

I just use Amsoil .
But heres a copy from another corvette forum about VR1
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/1646912-vr1-racing-oil-isnt-the-oil-we-thought-it-was.html

Thanks for the link. I should have said vr1 synthetic. Check out this link. I believe it's the same guy from the old Corvette forum link you gave me. The zddp numbers look sound.
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31224
:cheers:

[Hib Halverson]

No one needs to put ZDDP "additives" in the oil of an LT5 engine.

There is so much BS on the Internet about ZDDP it's ridiculous.

Low levels of ZDP in engine oils is only an issue with flat tappet camshafts working pushrod operated valves, ie: pre-'86 Small-Block V8s.

The LT5 is an overhead cam engine and thus has far lower loads at the lobe/lifter interface and does not require any additional ZDP either from an "additive" or a special oil.

In fact, on the subject of ZDP additives, be careful, very careful, because, contrary to popular belief, with ZDP, it is bad to assume that "if some is good, more is better". You can get to a point with ZDP concentration in the oil that more ZDP will damage the engine. If you insist on "brewing" your own ZDP fortified engine oil, don't let ZDP concentration beyond the point that you have above 1600 ppm phosphate content in the oil.

If you want to know more about ZDP and engine oils in general, see:
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/oil/#.UIiwG46ICdU

[4CAM LT5]

No one needs to put ZDDP "additives" in the oil of an LT5 engine.

There is so much BS on the Internet about ZDDP it's ridiculous.

Low levels of ZDP in engine oils is only an issue with flat tappet camshafts working pushrod operated valves, ie: pre-'86 Small-Block V8s.

The LT5 is an overhead cam engine and thus has far lower loads at the lobe/lifter interface and does not require any additional ZDP either from an "additive" or a special oil.

In fact, on the subject of ZDP additives, be careful, very careful, because, contrary to popular belief, with ZDP, it is bad to assume that "if some is good, more is better". You can get to a point with ZDP concentration in the oil that more ZDP will damage the engine. If you insist on "brewing" your own ZDP fortified engine oil, don't let ZDP concentration beyond the point that you have above 1600 ppm phosphate content in the oil.

If you want to know more about ZDP and engine oils in general, see:
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/oil/#.UIiwG46ICdU

Appreciate all the "de-bunking", HH....!!

[WARP TEN]

If you want to know more about ZDP and engine oils in general, see:
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/oil/#.UIiwG46ICdU

Hib, that was a very well researched and comprehensive article. As a former journalist I always have appreciated your excellent technical writing. There won't be any extra ZDP gong into my engine!-- Bob

[WARP TEN]

Hib, that was a very well researched and comprehensive article. As a former journalist I always have appreciated your excellent technical writing. There won't be any extra ZDP gong into my engine!-- Bob

Of course you would expect that as a former journalist I would be able to spell "going"..... :-)

[mike100]

I do have some Amsoil Z-Rod 10w-30, but I only mix in enough to duplicate zddp concentration in 1990's oil blends. Maybe 3 qts out of 8 to boost the modern formulation mobil1.

My goal is to not to overspend on the oil and to not get crazy with any additives that will coat down the catalysts and cause me grief during future emissions inspections.

[scottfab]

This time of year I use STA-BIL fuel stabilizer.
I get it to 1/4 tank and put in what's necessary.
No need to preserve more that 1/4 tank.

[Hib Halverson]

Of course you would expect that as a former journalist I would be able to spell "going"..... :-)

Dude...as a former journalist, you know none of us can spell.
:cheers:

[SteelBlueZR1]

Regarding recommendations on engine oils and ZDP contents, if you haven't read Marc Haibec's tech paper, you should check out:
http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/Modern%20Motor%20Oil%20and%20the%20LT5%20Engine.pd f

[WARP TEN]

Dude...as a former journalist, you know none of us can spell.
:cheers:

I admit it does make me feel right at home :cheers:

[Hib Halverson]

Regarding recommendations on engine oils and ZDP contents, if you haven't read Marc Haibec's tech paper, you should check out:
http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/Modern%20Motor%20Oil%20and%20the%20LT5%20Engine.pd f

I've read Marc's article–several times. I read it when he first published it in the newsletter and, then a couple more times when I was researching my article on engine oil.

Marc and I agree on many LT5 issues but the idea that LT5s have a problem with lower levels of EP additives in modern engine oils is not a subject on which he and I see eye-to-eye.

My research showed that because the LT5 uses direct acting flat tappets--meaning the cam lobe moves directly on the lifter face rather than on a "finger follower"--the loads at the lobe/lifter interface are far lower than those present at the same interface in an OHV engine. Because the loads are significantly lower, the need for EP additives is less and OHC engines with direct-acting tappets don't have problems with the lower levels of EP additives in modern oil.

This is why engine failures due to reduced levels of EP additives in engine oils have occured only in OHV engines (Small-Block V8s, Big-Block V8s and other pushrod engines with flat tappet cams) or in OHC engines where the lobe acts on a "finger follower".

There are tens of millions of OHC engines on the road worldwide which use direct acting flat tappets. If that type of valve train had a problem with reduced levels of EP additives in ILSAC GF4 rated oils, we'd know about it by now because there would have been widespread failures of cams and lifters in all those engines.

Further, with LT5, at this point in time there are many high-mileage LT5s on the road. Where is the evidence of widespread cam and lifter failures due to lower levels of EP additives in the oil? Not only are a lot LT5s high-mileage, but GF4 oils have been on the market for seven years. You'd think we have lots of LT5s with burned up cams and lifters but...we don't.

Also, the bucket tappets used in LT5s were, also, used in millions of "Quad 4" engines GM built in the late-'80s and early-'90s and a fair amount of them were still on the road in the '00s. If there was a problem with insufficient EP additives in modern engine oil, we'd have seen widespread cam and lifter failures in Quad-4s.

Bottom line: the vast majority of LT5 engines on the road (or the track) will not have problems using modern, GF-4 rated engine oils and 600-800 ppm phosphorous.

Now...you'll not above that I said "vast majority". There might a small minority of LT5s which could have a problem with lower levels of EP additives in engine oils and that's the very few LT5s which have valve spring pressures significantly higher than stock and/or aggressive camshaft profiles reground on stock cams. Significantly higher spring pressure may require a higher level of EP additives in the oil. More aggressive cam profiles reground on stock cams will result in lobes having more lift and a shorter minimum radius of curvature and that will affect the need for EP additives, as well. It is possible that an LT5 with "big" valve springs and/or reground cams will need an oil with 1000-1100 ppm phosphorous content rather than the 600-800 ppm in a GF4 rated oil. Fortunately, there are a number of oil choices with that level of phosphorous.

[scottfab]

Regarding recommendations on engine oils and ZDP contents, if you haven't read Marc Haibec's tech paper, you should check out:
http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/Modern%20Motor%20Oil%20and%20the%20LT5%20Engine.pd f

I gotta go with the "hands on" guy here. Well that and the more conservative approach of staying with what was being the mantra. Until I see evidence that lowered levels of ZDP are ok I'm going to error on the side of =>1600ppm.

[xlr8nflorida]

Hib,

It's a well written article, I thought I saw the same article in Corvette Enthusiast a few years ago.

I just use the HM Mobil 1 Oil and call it a day.

Marc also agrees that the HM Mobil 1 is acceptable for the LT-5.

Too much ZDDP can cause many problems, one of which is Cat failure. Mixing any oils can change the characteristics of how they behave.

On a side note Hib, My good friend John Wysocki works on your car in Florida.

[A1990]

I use the Joe Gibbs Driven Hot Rod Oil, for the reasons mentioned throughout Hib's article and recommended by engine builder Ryan Bell, (Flyin Ryan on this forum).

[Hib Halverson]

Hib,

It's a well written article,Thank you I thought I saw the same article in Corvette Enthusiast a few years ago.
You saw essentially the same story in CE. The Editor gave the CAC permission to use it.

I just use the HM Mobil 1 Oil and call it a day.

Marc also agrees that the HM Mobil 1 is acceptable for the LT-5.
A good choice.

Too much ZDDP can cause many problems, one of which is Cat failure. Catalytic convertor failure and chemical wear of the cam lobes and lifters are both problems which may occur if the phosphate concentration in the oil is too high.On a side note Hib, My good friend John Wysocki works on your car in Florida.

My car has never been in Florida, I live in California and I do all my own service work. Maybe you have me confused with someone else?

[Hib Halverson]

I gotta go with the "hands on" guy here. Well that and the more conservative approach of staying with what was being the mantra. Until I see evidence that lowered levels of ZDP are ok I'm going to error on the side of =>1600ppm.

As much oil as that smoker of yours uses, "scottfab", you ought to be using a diesel engine oil. :mrgreen:

All of them have lots of ZDP. I recommend Chevron Delo 400LE or Shell Rotella T. Both are available as 10W30s.

[scottfab]

As much oil as that smoker of yours uses, "scottfab", you ought to be using a diesel engine oil. :mrgreen:

All of them have lots of ZDP. I recommend Chevron Delo 400LE or Shell Rotella T. Both are available as 10W30s.

eh, as long as it keeps passing the state inspection how bad could it be?
Fortunately they don't measure at WOT up to 7k :dancing
I just love how the LT5 sound north of 6k.