Bylaws

[Dynomite]

It seems to me that anyone thinking of becoming a paying member would want to know what the Bylaws are in any club.

It also seems to me if there is a current discussion regarding changes to Bylaws, that would be an interest to any and all prospective paying members.

I guess I do not know what the BIG secret is :p

Observing a discussion of New Bylaws might give prospective paying members an indication of the personalities involved in the club before they do pay to join as paying members. It would give prospective paying members an indication of the professionalism exhibited by current Board members and other current paying members who participate in that discussion.

Having said that, I can understand that it may not be appropriate for a non paying member or prospective member to directly participate in that discussion of New Bylaws. I guess that is the issue :dontknow:

Suggesting we join up as paying members without being able to see the discussion of New Bylaws and the thought process in the development of those Bylaws almost sounds like a scam ;)

Pay now and find out later what you paid for and what you are involved with :confused:

Just wondering and hope this is not taken as being a Smart Aleck in any way. So please do not take it that way :handshak:

I would like to observe the discussion of New Bylaws but not participate in that discussion :D
I would also like the see the Bylaws before I join any club as a paying member.

[DDSLT5]

I couldn't agree more, with regard to knowing what the club is all about. It is called transparency.

I'm a founding member of this club. I witnessed first hand and participated in the creation of this club. The board members (no it doesn't matter that I use this term 'board' or another - it is understood that I mean the creators and guardians of the club, of course) had numerous lengthy discussions about how to design a club where the members had all the power, and the leaders of the club had very little power, & should any changes to the rules of the club (by laws) be made, there was a clear method by which changes were run by all members with multiple votes over extended time periods before the club could be changed.

It was this transparency that was our insurance that the leaders of the club never had too much power to effect changes that might ruin or close our beloved club. We were the 'fathers' of what we wanted to be a great club, & what we wanted to be a club based on the needs of the members & devoted to fun!

Dave Bright & Ron Kreigh, along with Bill, Mim, me & numerous others (check the old issues of the HOTB) slaved long and hard to put together what you members see today. Dave bright did a ton of leg work to find the current bylaws and yes, they need to be modified somewhat but the spirit of our efforts absolutely must be maintained, IMO.

Any changes that centralize the power of the leaders of a group that is supposed to be a voluntary organization gives me serious pause.

We call Dave Bright 'MoM' because he is so trustworthy that we can literally give him the keys to our lives & have no fear that all will be well. This comes from high moral & ethical values. Ron requested that Dave get involved (Ron was the defacto head of the LT5 registry) because running this club is a ton of work, and Ron knew he needed help from a true leader as is Dave. Truly, it saddens me to see the club come to this state where such a huge sweeping set of changes are made behind closed doors.

I encourage everyone to carefully think about what 'MoM' would think about these proposed changes if he hasn't posted his thoughts for whatever reason.

Consider that I have devoted hundreds of hours to this registry, & I feel that most of those on the executive are super honest & hard working people - but only a scant few have asked me why I'm not a current member.

As someone who is NOT a current member, I have my reasons (which I think are very good reasons), but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to possibly join in the future.

Any future member would surely be afforded the opportunity to see how their membership dollars might be spent, etc. I think this is essential, & I feel that these discussions should be visible to all.

I've witnessed the downfall of many clubs - and it always starts with the leadership. The current leadership has been elected in a manner as required by the bylaws - we trust them with the stewardship of our most valued club - but the club belongs to the members.

Much like a good democracy, the people should not fear government, government should fear its people.


Thanks for reading everyone!

Dwight

[A1990]

Great question Dwight. Why aren't you a member?

I have great respect for your efforts as the Editor. It is the single toughest job with the Registry. And you know as well as I do, that being a member of the Executive Committee is a thankless job.

There is no power agenda, no hidden agenda. What good would that do? What does the Executive Committee/Board have power over? This is just a job, a thankless, pay less job. That's it. Nothing else.

Anyone that thinks it is more than that should step up and run for a spot on the Board. I fully expect those that are so critical to throw their names into the hat and serve the Registry members going forward.

[scottfab]

Seems to be some "confused" reasoning going on.

If I don't like the way Enron is being run but I'm not a share holder
I don't get to go to or vote in the stock holder's meeting, right?
I also can't walk in and demand to see all the internal memos.
Why would a non member be able to participate in an internal document discussion?

For the price of admission (dues) and the right to vote you'd
think there'd be MORE participation in the club not less.
The whining would wind down the the discussion of the bylaws would
wind up.

[QB93Z]

Dwight wrote:
I couldn't agree more, with regard to knowing what the club is all about. It is called transparency.

I'm a founding member of this club. I witnessed first hand and participated in the creation of this club. The board members .... had numerous lengthy discussions about how to design a club where the members had all the power, and the leaders of the club had very little power......

It is not clear what "power" is being discussed. If the members have all the power, who will decide the date of the next Gathering and the agenda for the event, Who will decide how much the dues will be next year? Who will decide how many tables to rent at Corvettes at Carlisle? The members elect a governing body to make these decisions. I don't see any other "power" that is to be had by a volunteer board running a car club.


Dwight continued:
.......& should any changes to the rules of the club (by laws) be made, there was a clear method by which changes were run by all members with multiple votes over extended time periods before the club could be changed.

I suspect that most members of the Registry don't realize that the Bylaws were revised several times prior to the election of the current Executive Committee in 2010. Those changes were made without following the required formal procedure and with no input or vote by the members.

The current Executive Committee has changed that way of doing business. The revision to the Bylaws that we proposed is completely open for discussion and vote by the members.

Dwight also wrote:
It was this transparency that was our insurance that the leaders of the club never had too much power to effect changes that might ruin or close our beloved club.
Any changes that centralize the power of the leaders of a group that is supposed to be a voluntary organization gives me serious pause.


"Transparency" was mentioned twice by Dwight, but I note that during the administrations prior to 2011, very few, if any, Minutes of Executive Committee meetings were ever published. If minutes are not published, how can the members know what the elected leaders are doing?

In addition, during the administration in office from January, 2009 through April, 2010, when Dwight was a member of the Executive Committee, no proper financial statements were published to the members. If financial statements had been published, the members might have known that over $1,000 of Registry funds had been spent for personal use of one Executive Committee member without permission or approval of the Executive Committee. (For the record, after a lengthy process, that money was returned to the treasury.)

The current Executive Committee changed that way of doing business. The Treasurer has prepared Quarterly Financial Statements every three months. The Secretary creates the Minutes of each meeting. Those financial statements and minutes are reviewed and approved by the Executive Committee and published to the members.

Dwight also wrote:
Any future member would surely be afforded the opportunity to see how their membership dollars might be spent, etc. I think this is essential, & I feel that these discussions should be visible to all.


There are other examples of ways that the Registry used to be run that I won't go into here.

My point is that the call for transparency is what the current Executive Committee heard in the election in 2010, and it is transparency that we have strived to achieve more that anything else during the last two years.

Jim

[cvette]

It seems to me that anyone thinking of becoming a paying member would want to know what the Bylaws are in any club.
In my 15 + years in car clubs......8 of which as some sort of and officer....no one has EVER approached me and asked for a copy of the club bylaws before joining. Most don't even take the copy out of the membership packets to review after joining.
It also seems to me if there is a current discussion regarding changes to Bylaws, that would be an interest to any and all prospective paying members.
Not true. It is the business of the PAYING MEMBERSHIP and no one outside of that. If an individual would like a say....then that person is obligated to purchase a membership like the rest of us so his/her voice can be heard on an even plane like the rest of ours!

I guess I do not know what the BIG secret is :p
From what I am reading there is no "big secret". This club/community for a number of years has had its problems with financial issues. Not that we have been in financial difficulties but more like it being an open cookie jar for people to abuse.......and they have.....more than once! This current board it seems are trying to set this up in a way to run more like a professional business rather than a checking acoout with no oversight.

Observing a discussion of New Bylaws might give prospective paying members an indication of the personalities involved in the club before they do pay to join as paying members. It would give prospective paying members an indication of the professionalism exhibited by current Board members and other current paying members who participate in that discussion.
Once again, there is no need for this. They are not paid members. If they would like a current copy of the bylaws I would imagine that someone on the board could provide them with that. If they have not joined by the time the vote for the new bylaws has come and gone then I am positive the current board could provide them a copy of the resulting bylaws after the fact.

Having said that, I can understand that it may not be appropriate for a non paying member or prospective member to directly participate in that discussion of New Bylaws. I guess that is the issue :dontknow:

Suggesting we join up as paying members without being able to see the discussion of New Bylaws and the thought process in the development of those Bylaws almost sounds like a scam ;)


Pay now and find out later what you paid for and what you are involved with :confused:As far as I know.......there is no membership drive going on now. There is no discount for joining at this moment in time so my advice to you is wait to make up your mind till after the vote. I think there is only a week or so left to submit the votes. In a week or two you should be able to request a copy of the bylaws. Read through them......make sure you can live with them and make your decision accordingly.
Just wondering and hope this is not taken as being a Smart Aleck in any way. So please do not take it that way :handshak:

I would like to observe the discussion of New Bylaws but not participate in that discussion :D
I would also like the see the Bylaws before I join any club as a paying member.

As a founding member of this club let me just say that all this childish jib jab is really disheartening. The Registry was started as a knowledge base for a specific car.....our cars. The friends I have made over the last 15 years of ownership of ZR-1's are invaluable to me and all the BS that's been happening of late disgusts me!

Charlie Arnold
MO State Dir

[A1990]

Thanks for the support Charlie. You are spot on. While we have stumbled with the newsletter, there are no quitters here. That's why you don't hear excuses. We will produce the newsletters owed.

We are all working diligently to make sure that future leaders of the ZR-1 Net Registry will have a working model to follow.

[xlr8nflorida]

Thanks for the support Charlie. You are spot on. While we have stumbled with the newsletter, there are no quitters here. That's why you don't hear excuses. We will produce the newsletters owed.

We are all working diligently to make sure that future leaders of the ZR-1 Net Registry will have a working model to follow.


Really? There were a ton of excuses (none by you) and posts dodged in the past few months.

Only reason the newsletter is now being produced is that everybody made a big deal out of it.

Where are all the Refunds??

[A1990]

Really? There were a ton of excuses (none by you) and posts dodged in the past few months.

Only reason the newsletter is now being produced is that everybody made a big deal out of it.

You couldn't be more wrong.

[xlr8nflorida]

You couldn't be more wrong.

Let's agree to disagree, there were numerous posts that still exist, several got deleted and edited (as they always do) Actually, there was one thread where I believe it was blamed on existing Members for not giving Stories and Copy. FYI, it is the Editor's job to come up with stories, gather stories from Membership and make sure the deadlines are met. It's the President's job to make sure that the board members are doing their jobs.

Also, its comical how you say there were no excuses by the board....(even though there were)

How can you give an excuse that is plausible when the Editor and board have Failed to produce a Newsletter in God knows how long?

How does something like that even occur is beyond me???

Where are all the Refunds??

[DaveK]

We have several problems here. This thread is supposed to be about bylaws. As has been stated several times the proper place for discussion of this is in the members only section.

We also now have a number of heated off-topic comments about the newsletter involving attacks and insinuations. We also have political comments being made as well.

I am locking this thread. The points that are supposedly being made have been answered.

I would remind all of you that are not ZR-1 Net Registry members that you are guests on this forum; I suggest that you try to act as such. If I see any more of these attacks and attempts to stir up trouble I shall start banning people. There is a way to raise legitimate concerns and you are far beyond what is acceptable.

Dave