Lifting the Z question.

[vilant]

Since my car is out commission, was planning on lifting it and putting it on jack stands. My question is will I damage the car if I leave up on stands for an extended period of time? I plan on changing the diff. and trans. fluids and replacing the fuel filter. Also may clean up under there while I'm at it. The front shocks need changing also. It's a pain lifting and putting it back down. If I can, I was going to leave it up for a month or so. I guess I should pull the tires to relieve strain on springs and shocks? Or is leaving it up not a very good idea? Thanks in advance.:cheers:

[scottfab]

No, I don't think so. I use to lift mine up just to keep the tires from getting a flat spot over the winter.

[vilant]

No, I don't think so. I use to lift mine up just to keep the tires from getting a flat spot over the winter.
I take it you experienced no ill effects on the suspension from the tires hanging down all winter. Or do you take them off?

[RyanChappel]

Use caution picking up the Z. Getting the front end torqued on one side can cause the windshield to crack...

[vilant]

Use caution picking up the Z. Getting the front end torqued on one side can cause the windshield to crack...
I've lifted it before and I'm extra special careful. My concern is leaving up for a few months, while I take my time maintenancing.:cheers:

[scottfab]

I take it you experienced no ill effects on the suspension from the tires hanging down all winter. Or do you take them off?

No, I used to just leave the tires hanging but contacting the ground just enough to keep the shock from taking all the weight. Now I just take it out for a quick drive once a month in the winter.

I've never found lifting one side or ever heard of lifting one side causing any problems. I would not lift one corner though. Lifting by the front , or back or side evenly is fine.

[Paul Workman]

Had mine on jacks for over a year at one time w/the tires on...no problems.

Far as jacking at one corner goes, if it were likely to break windshields, then heaven help us if we ever hit a pot hole! I know Discount Tiire's policy is to open the hood, doors, and hatch to "avoid cracking", which Ilm dubious about too (again, normal driving stressing). I even drove over the end of my wheel ramps once, causing the car to crash down on the frame on top of the ramps...No problems. So, i guess the worries about jacking and cracking are a bit overblown. But, i tossed the wheel ramps and now use a pair of jacks most of the time. (Except to change a tire.)

Flexing does occur with the top off. Maybe there are concerns when jacking sans the top, but with the top on I've jacked my two C4s every which way and never had a problem.

I'm just sayin...

P.

[vilant]

Had mine on jacks for over a year at one time w/the tires on...no problems.

Far as jacking at one corner goes, if it were likely to break windshields, then heaven help us if we ever hit a pot hole! I know Discount Tiire's policy is to open the hood, doors, and hatch to "avoid cracking", which Ilm dubious about too (again, normal driving stressing). I even drove over the end of my wheel ramps once, causing the car to crash down on the frame on top of the ramps...No problems. So, i guess the worries about jacking and cracking are a bit overblown. But, i tossed the wheel ramps and now use a pair of jacks most of the time. (Except to change a tire.)

Flexing does occur with the top off. Maybe there are concerns when jacking sans the top, but with the top on I've jacked my two C4s every which way and never had a problem.

I'm just sayin...

P.
Ok, good that's what I was worried about. I too use 2 jacks when lifting it, both on the same side. And I put the painted top on. I really don't know which one is stronger, but I feel the fiber is less likely to crack than the acrylic.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I have not confirmed, but I think my shocks were ruined from hanging down for about 2 years when I was deployed then relocated to GA. I had new shocks and was planning on replacement so did not care. It was very bouncy after storage. I don't know for sure, but I would not leave them extended hanging all the way down for an extended period like I did if no plans to replace. JMHO.............

[vilant]

I have not confirmed, but I think my shocks were ruined from hanging down for about 2 years when I was deployed then relocated to GA. I had new shocks and was planning on replacement so did not care. It was very bouncy after storage. I don't know for sure, but I would not leave them extended hanging all the way down for an extended period like I did if no plans to replace. JMHO.............
Well, I only plan to leave it up for a month, no more than two. I will be replacing the 2 front shocks. The rears are brand new. I guess I'll just use the 2 jacks to keep the rears supported and not worry about the fronts since they're getting changed.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Well, I only plan to leave it up for a month, no more than two. I will be replacing the 2 front shocks. The rears are brand new. I guess I'll just use the 2 jacks to keep the rears supported and not worry about the fronts since they're getting changed. Best wishes and you should be good to go. Mine was up way too long so I'm not surprised if that caused the damage. :cheers:

[RyanChappel]

to Paul Workman;

I am not disagreeing with your experience of lifting your car. I know I saw it somewhere. The Previous Owner had a file of many,many reprints of letters to this forum, and communication with Marc Haibeck, and I read the entire file..can't remember if I saw the comments about lifting the cars there, or if it was in one of the service manuals...I will look at the manuals...I'm not just making it up.
Your analogy about hitting a pothole doesn't really fit though, if you think about it....

regards...RC

[scottfab]

to Paul Workman;

.... snip....
Your analogy about hitting a pothole doesn't really fit though, if you think about it....

regards...RC

I totally agree. College courses in "Strengths of Materials" teaches dynamic vs static loads. A pot hole is a short dynamic load. Lifting the whole front of the car via one corner and letting is stay that way for an extended period is a static load. I have no evidence this is bad for a ZR-1 but then..... Henry David Thoreau once said....
"Circumstantial evidence is occasionally very convincing, as when you find a trout in the milk."

[Paul Workman]

Ryan/scott...

The reference was to beaking the windshield if the car was jacked on one (front, I assume) corner. OK, you don't like the pothole analogy, but really now... Has anyone broken their windshield when putting a jack under one corner (to change a tire, or whatever)??? What's the difference between that and parking the car on uneven ground, for example?

I'm not suggesting jacking one corner and leaving it there indefinately, but my point is there is a lot of "circumstantial evidence" on (what seems to be) an endless variety of topics, and cracking the windshield as result of jacking on one corner really gets my eyes rolling...when I think about it. (How many jacks did GM provide with your ZR-1??)

These things aren't babies; not that unnecessary abuse is suggested at all. But, when you hear of "a trout in the milk" (using scottfab's illustration), one needs to step back and consider how it got there, and not assume it always was - is my point.

For what it's worth, I use a pair of jacks. But even then, after jacking all four corners and placing jack stands under the car, I've discovered the car to be cross-corner supported at times due to the floor being uneven by a tooth on the jack stands. I shim the jacks or adjust when that happens (OK, babying it I suppose). Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm just sayin (in reference to breaking the windshield only) "Oh, come on!!!"

And, back to the OP: I suppose you could remove the wheels if you're going to leave it jacked for an extended period. Seems like it couldn't hurt, and if others have had issues as result of leaving them on (even tho it may have been a "fish in the milk"), take 'em off.

Your mileage may vary...

P.

[scottfab]

The title to this thread is "Lifting the Z question".
While breaking the glass was mentioned
at no time can I see limiting the thread to "breaking glass".
I certainly did not. I only said "I would not lift one corner" at a time.
Other concerns that fit under the thread title are damage to shocks from prolonged weight hung off them and tires developing flat spots.

MY ONLY POINT in mentioning a trout in milk was the I cannot
prove lifting one corner is bad. It just seems overwhelmingly a BAD idea.
And that would be a 'period' at the end of "idea".

[pantera1683]

I dread every time I have to lift the Z for fear of a mishap. Any leads on where to purchase the pipe adapter?

[USAFPILOT]

got the size/ specs for the steel tube?

[Paul Workman]

A single datum does not a trend make, but mine hung for almost a year with no ill affects far as I could detect.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/Z9-4-11005Large.jpg

P.

[Z51JEFF]

Use caution picking up the Z. Getting the front end torqued on one side can cause the windshield to crack...

Ive owned 2 C4s,have had these cars up in the air from every corner and have never heard this before.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Windshields are "float" installed, meaning that they are set in Butyl. As the car flexes, the windshield butyl acts as a pillow or sorts.

Think of your house window in a fixed frame vs a window set in frame of silicone. The windshield also has a laminate between the panes.

A cracked windshield from jacking the car on only one point would be an anomoly.

[phrogs]

Windshields are "float" installed, meaning that they are set in Butyl. As the car flexes, the windshield butyl acts as a pillow or sorts.

Think of your house window in a fixed frame vs a window set in frame of silicone. The windshield also has a laminate between the panes.

A cracked windshield from jacking the car on only one point would be an anomoly.


YUP!!




I have owned C4 corvettes (many of them) since 1995 and have always jacked them up a corner at a time, on the frame then set them down on jackstands.

Done it every way imaginable and never once have I damaged a car.

Had them one on jacks for 9 months straight when I was in Iraq.

nope never broke a window!

[vilant]

I thought the cracking the windshield occured when you didn't have the top in, as it is a structural component of the car.



Very nice lifting techniques, Dyno (especially the wood ramp, cheap and easy). Does that pipe scratch up any parts or do you stick a block of wood between the pipe and the car?

[Paul Workman]

Windshields are "float" installed, meaning that they are set in Butyl. As the car flexes, the windshield butyl acts as a pillow or sorts.

Think of your house window in a fixed frame vs a window set in frame of silicone. The windshield also has a laminate between the panes.

A cracked windshield from jacking the car on only one point would be an anomoly.

JMO, one of my pet peeves w/the Discount Tire is their policy(?) Of opening the doors and popping the hood prior to lifting a (Vette). Seems to me that would maximize frame flexing and "cracking the 'fiberglass' " thus exaserbating the "risk" instead of minimizing it.

I dunno. I wonder sometimes if the potential for (cracking) is overblown. Course first time I crack something I may have a new opinion.

Thoughts?

P.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Paul, I think you're right. Just lore of old. I've had shops tell me about cracking a Vette when they didn't pop the doors open and loosen the T-tops. Of course, this was way back in 78 when I bought my 69.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Great lifting tips Cliff! About the rear, I bought this gadget about 10 years ago but used it only once I think: http://www.corvettegadgetman.com/products3.html

Your pipe idea looks like a good lower cost option and I might build a set of the wooden ramps; thanks for sharing.

Craig :cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

You are very welcome...I was getting worried about you :handshak:

The pipe seems to be safer as it is captured between the leaf spring bolts, exhaust and tire cover. If you jack has a circular cupped plate approximately 5 inches in diameter (most 3 ton floor jacks have a cupped plate that the pipe sits in perfectly).

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/LT5/3Tonfloorjack.jpg

That makes sense to me. :worship:

[RICKYRJ1]

No wood on top of pipe.....for me.....I will touch it up if I see anything with can of black spray paint ;)
The area is almost too small to place a piece of wood on top of the pipe.



Just get a rag, fold it over a couple of times (to make it thicker/softer) and lay it on the top of the lifting pipe. You'll never have to worry about scratches. I do it al the time with my car, I even have a piece of 2x4 wrapped in a microfiber I use when lifting at the front cross member

[scottfab]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1%20Maintenance/Lift1s.jpg


Does your hood not match up to the side fender ?
I know it's not down all the way but wow.

[Scrrem]

Yes.....4 inch outside diameter and 3/8 inch wall thickness.
5 inches long section of what is normally called Extra Strong Pipe.
You can use thinner wall pipe if you want but I Like the weight.

Any Steel place that sells steel of any kind should carry 4 inch outside diameter pipe.

You can get the 2x12 (2x10 is lighter) lumber at any lumber yard and they will cut it in 36 inch, 24 inch, 18 inch lengths for you as you like. Screw the three sections of ramp together using deck screws.

Is the jacking point being used in the rear the fiberglass spring or the aluminum mount that hold the spring?

[Z51JEFF]

I made a few aluminum pads and attatcthed some polyethylene plastic to that.Anything that comes in contact with the car is hard plastic.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a136/FLYTYM/DSC00116.jpg