Seriously guys, wtf...

[vilant]

I don't even like coming to the website anymore, because all I see is a bunch of BS about politics. I understand it gets a little old talking about the same things going wrong w/ a ZR-1 over and over and over again. But isn't there anything else off topic to talk about. It's bad enough I get inudated by commercials and phone calls, now I see it on the one place I look to escape it. Believe it or not I'm an adult and educated, and I know all about both sides of the debate. Only the simple-minded would say " ahh, well so and so posted this about him on the internet, so now I'm voting for the other guy". Just about every politician on both sides of the aisle is corrupt (there are a FEW who are still in touch w/ the common person), it's just a matter of who's more corrupt than the other. You want to change the country. Vote Independant. Oh wait, that's right, that would be a waste of a vote. Sorry I hate politics.
P.S. I'm a registered voter and vote at EVERY election, local or national.

[FU]

Here's to you Joe :cheers:

[ZZZZZR1]

Joe

I agree 100%.

:cheers:

David

[efnfast]

Sorry Joe, I get sucked in every time. Guess I'm pretty fed up with the way the system is run, on both sides.:-x

However, we all need to stay involved, and this is part of it.

[Kevin]

i've asked to have my access to the "off topic" section revoked because of it, just waiting to hear back if it's doable or not

[Kevin]

Sorry Joe, I get sucked in every time. Guess I'm pretty fed up with the way the system is run, on both sides.:-x

However, we all need to stay involved, and this is part of it.

no, posting forwarded chain emails on a car board isn't "staying involved"

[scottfab]

Couldn't agree more. It's not enough to just say
"don't look at the OFF TOPIC" because you can see the
titles and personally I just get infuriated at the lopsidedness
of the bashing.

I've done some snooping around on features on the forum.
There is a feature for creating "groups".
And If I understand it only those that want to be in a particular
group can get in and see stuff.
That's what's needed. Those that want to join a group for bashing
politicians and/or political issues can go there and the rest of us
don't have to see it.
Again, that's what's needed. Well that and the convention that says "OFF TOPIC" is not for politics.

I setup this convention for a list of folks on Facebook. Now all those wanting to rant go there and don't post politics in the other groups. In this way friends can stay as FB friends and don't have to see stuff they don't want to.

[vilant]

Thanks guys and I agree we have to stay involved and I do. I just don't do it on a CORVETTE website. Good idea, Scott. Btw, what some are doing with the posts here, is called spamming on other websites.

[SteelBlueZR1]

Joe, I too agree 110% with you, and applaud your ideal timing and candor, given the most recent adjacent off-topic political BS thread that is not only factually flawed but also downright offensive... Now, lets get back to talking about what brings us together in the Brotherhood of the Beast.

[ZZZZZR1]

Does anyone think we should keep this negative political chatter?

Maybe we should consider that a new policy....

Keep it friendly, about us (the brotherhood) and the beast!!!

:cheers:

David

[scottfab]

Does anyone think we should keep this negative political chatter?

Maybe we should consider that a new policy....

Keep it friendly, about us (the brotherhood) and the beast!!!

:cheers:

David

I'd be ok with NO political chatter. Those that feel the need could join some group intended for it. If it's kept it should be as a "sign up" group. But either way should not show up in the "New Post" search.
That's my 2 cents.

[FU]

I'd be ok with NO political chatter. Those that feel the need could join some group intended for it. If it's kept it should be as a "sign up" group. But either way should not show up in the "New Post" search.
That's my 2 cents.

Great suggestion Scott ! I 'think" that can and should be done....... Calling David J.

[ZZZZZR1]

Let's see if anyone disagree's. Then I will ask the board to change this

This should be a drama free zone!!!

:salute:

David

[MikeGolf]

I agree a Political free forum here. Car Related only. I for one am guilty as charged and think it should be stopped, besides it stirs up my PTSD to much, lol.

[FU]

From what I understand here the question is , Can or should we have a Political-enter at your own risk section under the Off Topic section in the forum ?

[Kevin]

if there is it needs to be opt in only. I don't want to see them when i click on "new posts"

[Paul in SC]

if there is it needs to be opt in only. I don't want to see them when i click on "new posts"

All the better. I am with Kevin 100%. :cheers:

Paul

[ZZZZZR1]

How about no political discussions? No opt out

We are a car club and not a political party

:flag2:

David

[Hog]

How about no political discussions? No opt out

We are a car club and not a political party

:flag2:

David
Agreed.

peace
Hog

[Paul in SC]

How about no political discussions? No opt out

We are a car club and not a political party

:flag2:

David

IMO, that is what I had hoped someone would say. End it all together.
Thanks, David... :handshak:

Paul

[vilant]

How about no political discussions? No opt out

We are a car club and not a political party

:flag2:

David
Absolutly.:handshak:

[efnfast]

I'll keep my mouth shut. Well, my fingers off the keyboard.

[Z Factor]

I cannot remember a time when so many political threads were started in such a short period of time on the forum. I suspect it is a case of presidential politics and the election being right around the corner that has spurred the flurry of opposing political threads. That, and how polarized the country is at the moment is also likely reflected in the recent rash of political threads.

Maybe a temporary moratorium on political posts for say the next 60 days until the election cycle ends is in order. After that, I suspect we will return to our primary passion, that being the love of ZR-1's.

Any and all thoughts/opinions are encouraged.

:cheers:

[scottfab]

This is a reasonable proposal but does not address root cause and that is the "New Posts" filter. A separate forum group called "Politics" would if the "New Posts" filter did not report on the "Politics" group.

I cannot remember a time when so many political threads were started in such a short period of time on the forum. I suspect it is a case of presidential politics and the election being right around the corner that has spurred the flurry of opposing political threads. That, and how polarized the country is at the moment is also likely reflected in the recent rash of political threads.

Maybe a temporary moratorium on political posts for say the next 60 days until the election cycle ends is in order. After that, I suspect we will return to our primary passion, that being the love of ZR-1's.

Any and all thoughts/opinions are encouraged.

:cheers:

[Z Factor]

This is a reasonable proposal but does not address root cause and that is the "New Posts" filter. A separate forum group called "Politics" would if the "New Posts" filter did not report on the "Politics" group.

While several measures could be taken to achieve the same purpose, keep in mind that we have never had a problem with political threads in the "Off Topic" section since it's inception. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of posters have not engaged in the current tit for tat thread battle.

It would be sad to think we need to permanently restrict ourselves from our own devices. Fortunately, even with the differing political points of view, most have remained respectful and civil, which is what we should expect from mature adults.
So to that end, I have no reason to believe that a temporary moratorium of political threads until after the upcoming election will not smooth out this bump in the road.
Lets see what others who care to render an opinion think.

:cheers:

[jcruz]

I'd like to see a political free board There are plenty of other boards & sites around the Internet that serve such a purpose.

There are some gray areas, however. For example, what if someone posts a negative story about GM? The problem, sadly and unfortunately, is that government has permeated our society so that everything has a political element, even our cars.

[scottfab]

I'd like to see a political free board There are plenty of other boards & sites around the Internet that serve such a purpose.

There are some gray areas, however. For example, what if someone posts a negative story about GM? The problem, sadly and unfortunately, is that government has permeated our society so that everything has a political element, even our cars.

"political free board"
I like it.
And just like the 55mph at least when a GM topic comes up we all would know when we're creeping past 65mph.:-D
AND the thread titles that we all have to read from "New Posts" would not get so COMPLETELY political.

[scottfab]

While several measures could be taken to achieve the same purpose, keep in mind that we have never had a problem with political threads in the "Off Topic" section since it's inception. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of posters have not engaged in the current tit for tat thread battle.

It would be sad to think we need to permanently restrict ourselves from our own devices. Fortunately, even with the differing political points of view, most have remained respectful and civil, which is what we should expect from mature adults.
So to that end, I have no reason to believe that a temporary moratorium of political threads until after the upcoming election will not smooth out this bump in the road.
Lets see what others who care to render an opinion think.

:cheers:

I think there should be no DUII from mature adults and many other things.
I think many things we should do only takes a bad apple to push the cart over. This time the cart was repeatedly being push and I help push because I felt it the right thing to do. I was simply TIRED of seeing the one sided crap every time I logged in. You can call it tit for tat. I call it getting focus on the issue.

We have an opportunity to fix this not just shove it under the carpet and say it won't happen again. Because it WILL happen again after the election.
How many members would it take saying they don't want Politics on here? Give a number or %. To ignore what people are asking for and do "what's good for them" would be wrong. Either GET RID OF POLITICS or make it so the "New Posts" filter does not show them.

Sure even with the "guideline" of no Politics it will creep in sometimes just like a photo may not have the appropriate "G" string coverage based on someone's sensibilities. Be that as it may I submit the G string issue is let objectionable because one can see the title and know what it means without the title being upsetting.

[Kevin]

While several measures could be taken to achieve the same purpose, keep in mind that we have never had a problem with political threads in the "Off Topic" section since it's inception. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of posters have not engaged in the current tit for tat thread battle.

It would be sad to think we need to permanently restrict ourselves from our own devices. Fortunately, even with the differing political points of view, most have remained respectful and civil, which is what we should expect from mature adults.
So to that end, I have no reason to believe that a temporary moratorium of political threads until after the upcoming election will not smooth out this bump in the road.
Lets see what others who care to render an opinion think.

:cheers:
i don't want to see political discussion, I've asked you privately and I'll ask you publicly, if you continue to allow political discussion and it comes up when I hit "new posts" revoke my access to whatever part of the forum it's in

[Z Factor]

I think there should be no DUII from mature adults and many other things.
I think many things we should do only takes a bad apple to push the cart over. This time the cart was repeatedly being push and I help push because I felt it the right thing to do. I was simply TIRED of seeing the one sided crap every time I logged in. You can call it tit for tat. I call it getting focus on the issue.

We have an opportunity to fix this not just shove it under the carpet and say it won't happen again. Because it WILL happen again after the election.
How many members would it take saying they don't want Politics on here? Give a number or %. To ignore what people are asking for and do "what's good for them" would be wrong. Either GET RID OF POLITICS or make it so the "New Posts" filter does not show them.

Sure even with the "guideline" of no Politics it will creep in sometimes just like a photo may not have the appropriate "G" string coverage based on someone's sensibilities. Be that as it may I submit the G string issue is let objectionable because one can see the title and know what it means without the title being upsetting.

There is certainly some irony here. You are one of the few people who engaged in thread bombing of a political nature, then ask that politics be removed from the forum. Now your attempted explanation for this is that you were getting focus on the issue, as opposed to my general comment there was a tit for tat exchange going on by several posters.

My focus is to try and keep the forum running as smoothly as possible, while still allowing everyone to express their points of view(popular or not). In most instances this has been accomplished with politics being part of the discussion over the last 7 years, since the Off Topic section was created.
So while you believe politics will return once my suggestion of a moratorium is over, I suspect things will return to normal as the history of the board has proved.
I also would proffer for your consideration the possibility of greater strife saying politics is prohibited. Keep in mind that what is political to one person, might not be to another. Sure the obvious posts of Dem this, or Rep that, are easy enough to spot.
However Jcruz gives a perfect example of where criticism of GM can be viewed from a political lens. All it would take is genuine criticism of manufacturing defects that could be blamed on union workers, for some to press the report button as a forum rules violation. Then it winds up being the discretion of the first moderator who sees the report as to whether it is political or not, and what to do about it.

Still, with that said, I do not object to the notion of removing political thought from the Off Topic section if that is what the majority of forum goers want.
That is why I made a suggestion, and have asked others to give their viewpoints.

:cheers:

[jcruz]

There is certainly some irony here. You are one of the few people who engaged in thread bombing of a political nature, then ask that politics be removed from the forum. Now your attempted explanation for this is that you were getting focus on the issue, as opposed to my general comment there was a tit for tat exchange going on by several posters.

My focus is to try and keep the forum running as smoothly as possible, while still allowing everyone to express their points of view(popular or not). In most instances this has been accomplished with politics being part of the discussion over the last 7 years, since the Off Topic section was created.
So while you believe politics will return once my suggestion of a moratorium is over, I suspect things will return to normal as the history of the board has proved.
I also would proffer for your consideration the possibility of greater strife saying politics is prohibited. Keep in mind that what is political to one person, might not be to another. Sure the obvious posts of Dem this, or Rep that, are easy enough to spot.
However Jcruz gives a perfect example of where criticism of GM can be viewed from a political lens. All it would take is genuine criticism of manufacturing defects that could be blamed on union workers, for some to press the report button as a forum rules violation. Then it winds up being the digression of the first moderator who sees the report as to whether it is political or not, and what to do about it.

Still, with that said, I do not object to the notion of removing political thought from the Off Topic section if that is what the majority of forum goers want.
That is why I made a suggestion, and have asked others to give their viewpoints.

:cheers:

Exactly...have a short moratorium and self-regulate. Things will be back to normal soon enough, unless someone is simply looking to stir the pot.

John

[Z Factor]

i don't want to see political discussion, I've asked you privately and I'll ask you publicly, if you continue to allow political discussion and it comes up when I hit "new posts" revoke my access to whatever part of the forum it's in

Hi Kevin,

If you read my last post you will see that we are amenable to removal of politics from the forum if that is what a significant number of forum members wish.
As to your suggestion about removal from certain parts of the forum, the only section anything even remotely identifiable as overtly political, is the Off Topic section. Before we do that in your case, lets see what other forum members would like to see happen.

I will work on a poll that gives several different options as to how we can best address this issue.

:cheers:

[scottfab]

...snip...
Now your attempted explanation for this is that you were getting focus on the issue, as opposed to my general comment there was a tit for tat exchange going on by several posters.
snip....


I'm sorry my confession is met with skepticism on motive.
Sad really. But you know, I really don't care if you believe it.
Fact is it worked.
Rather than knock my motive why not focus on a solution?

Sure try your temp fix of a "moratorium". Doing something would be good. But how will you enforce that? Isn't there the same "oh no what about a GM topic" issue?

When I get flat due to a nail in my tire, sure I can just put more "air" in it but I prefer to "fix" the problem. Otherwise I have to keep coming back to it again and again and again. Now I could tell myself "gee how often to I get a nail" and just keep putting air in when it goes low.

You know at one point I would have supported free and open subject matter on the form. It hasn't worked when it comes to political issues and as the political climate get's more polarized in the next 4yrs (yes this would be on the other side of a temp moratorium) it's just going to get worse.
If not fixed we'll be right back here again.

What I don't understand mostly is the attitude toward folks that just want to get off the notification for posts out of "OFF TOPIC". What Kevin went for would work. There is no impact but for those volunteering. Then best solution is to fix "New Posts" to just not show political to those that don't want to see it, as some have suggested.

Finally, you may choose to call it thread bombing or tit for tat. I call it balancing the slams.

[Z Factor]

I'm sorry my confession is met with skepticism on motive.
Sad really. But you know, I really don't care if you believe it.
Fact is it worked.
Rather than knock my motive why not focus on a solution?

I will try to directly address your post, then get back to figuring out how to come up with a poll that can cover all aspects of this discussion.

I am not questioning your motive, rather your methods. If my response did not convey the latter, that was my intent. To use a hasty analogy, if you want to call attention to a fire, you do not make it bigger to draw attention to it. Your subsequent thread/poll as to how to address the issue was certainly a more productive means of accomplishing your stated goal.

Sure try your temp fix of a "moratorium". Doing something would be good. But how will you enforce that? Isn't there the same "oh no what about a GM topic" issue?

From a logistical standpoint, it is much easier to deal with those determinations on a temporary basis, rather than on a permanent basis. That combined with an invertible subsiding of political angst once the election is over makes a temporary restriction more logical than a permanent prohibition in my view. However I am certainly open to other perspectives, hence the request for other points of view.

What I don't understand mostly is the attitude toward folks that just want to get off the notification for posts out of "OFF TOPIC". What Kevin went for would work. There is no impact but for those volunteering. Then best solution is to fix "New Posts" to just not show political to those that don't want to see it, as some have suggested.

There is no problem with removing those who wish to stop seeing threads in a particular section/New Posts. As a matter of reference, there is at least one forum member that requested access to the Corvette Babes section be removed for the sake of he and his family. We were happy to accommodate his request without restricting other forum members ability to participate.
My only point when addressing Kevin was that it might be premature or hasty to make such a decision prior to seeing how this all works outs.

However if he, you, or anyone else would like us to remove your access to the OT, it can certain be accomplished upon request.

Finally, you may choose to call it thread bombing or tit for tat. I call it balancing the slams.

At the risk of sounding redundant, I respectfully disagree with how you went about this. If your political view is in the minority, I would think your ability to express your opposing point of view would be something your appreciated and cherished on a forum like ours.
Instead, if I understand your reasoning correctly, you purposely exacerbated a problem in an effort to draw attention to it. That seems illogical at best. Now you are asking that the forum change it's policy to restrict other forum members from exercising their ability to post their perspective on political issues. That also seems counterintuitive to your expressed posts.
Regardless, this is not a decision I intend to make on my own, and have asked for input not only from the forum members, but also members of the BOD as well. Just because the OT has been reasonably strife free from a political angst standpoint, that is no assurance it will always remain that way. The question is how we can best accommodate your request, without over moderating the forum and restricting other members. Hopefully the upcoming poll will help us to figure that out.

:cheers:

[jcruz]

I will try to directly address your post, then get back to figuring out how to come up with a poll that can cover all aspects of this discussion.

I am not questioning your motive, rather your methods. If my response did not convey the latter, that was my intent. To use a hasty analogy, if you want to call attention to a fire, you do not make it bigger to draw attention to it. Your subsequent thread/poll as to how to address the issue was certainly a more productive means of accomplishing your stated goal.



From a logistical standpoint, it is much easier to deal with those determinations on a temporary basis, rather than on a permanent basis. That combined with an invertible subsiding of political angst once the election is over makes a temporary restriction more logical than a permanent prohibition in my view. However I am certainly open to other perspectives, hence the request for other points of view.



There is no problem with removing those who wish to stop seeing threads in a particular section/New Posts. As a matter of reference, there is at least one forum member that requested access to the Corvette Babes section be removed for the sake of he and his family. We were happy to accommodate his request without restricting other forum members ability to participate.
My only point when addressing Kevin was that it might be premature or hasty to make such a decision prior to seeing how this all works outs.

However if he, you, or anyone else would like us to remove your access to the OT, it can certain be accomplished upon request.



At the risk of sounding redundant, I respectfully disagree with how you went about this. If your political view is in the minority, I would think your ability to express your opposing point of view would be something your appreciated and cherished on a forum like ours.
Instead, if I understand your reasoning correctly, you purposely exacerbated a problem in an effort to draw attention to it. That seems illogical at best. Now you are asking that the forum change it's policy to restrict other forum members from exercising their ability to post their perspective on political issues. That also seems counterintuitive to your expressed posts.
Regardless, this is not a decision I intend to make on my own, and have asked for input not only from the forum members, but also members of the BOD as well. Just because the OT has been reasonably strife free from a political angst standpoint, that is no assurance it will always remain that way. The question is how we can best accommodate your request, without over moderating the forum and restricting other members. Hopefully the upcoming poll will help us to figure that out.

:cheers:

Z Factor: they don't pay you enough :)

[FU]

Z Factor: they don't pay you enough :)

I agree , Bryan need's a raise :-D

[MickeyD]

You know guys, I have no problem with political discussion here at all. It's the reason it's called "Off Topic". Sure seems like some who want to stop are the ones doing the name calling and such. I have spiritedly debated on this forum, but have never called anyone names. Geez, are we not men here! It's sounds like "Mommy he called me a poo-pooh head." Good Lord, grow up. Although I don't like being called names, I'm a big boy, I can take it. It seems to me that if one side is allowed to say the other are idiots and why, why can it not be answered. This is the USA, no one has a monopoly on what is right. What I see is some members want their side put out but anyone who disagrees must be shut down. Is this really what we've come too. It's an "Off Topic" forum, don't want your little feelings hurt, don't read it. I enjoy the discussion and would like to see it continued without PC rules.

Just my opinion, worth what you pay for it.

Btw, for all who disagree with anything I say....I still want a 2013 ZR1!

[scottfab]

.... snip...
At the risk of sounding redundant, I respectfully disagree with how you went about this. If your political view is in the minority, I would think your ability to express your opposing point of view would be something your appreciated and cherished on a forum like ours.
Instead, if I understand your reasoning correctly, you purposely exacerbated a problem in an effort to draw attention to it. That seems illogical at best.

You can disagree with my method. I really don't care. You can call it immature or not the best or whatever. The desired attention would simply not have been the effective without getting others to step up and volunteer the idea of shutting politics off. I'll post this yet again. I did not come up with that solution. I merely seconded the idea and many others followed (left and right) I also put up several other options so don't say I was pushing to have Politics removed as the only option or that I was the originator or the only proponent.

Now you are asking that the forum change it's policy to restrict other forum members from exercising their ability to post their perspective on political issues. That also seems counterintuitive to your expressed posts.

You are absolutely and totally incorrect. I am not. I am asking for some sort of solution. And that it not be just putting air into the tire as a temp fix but that a root cause and fix happen. You say my methods for getting attention were bad and that I should have asked. Well?? what am I (and many others) asking? To date my only countermeasure for hate posts is to offer logic and possibly a counter point through a different thread. But then if I was able to see "OFF TOPIC" posts minus the Political, well then.

Regardless, this is not a decision I intend to make on my own, and have asked for input not only from the forum members, but also members of the BOD as well. Just because the OT has been reasonably strife free from a political angst standpoint, that is no assurance it will always remain that way.

Exactly so. The division in the nation will be reflected here as well. It will continue and likely get worse as nations frustrations are fanned by hate, made up BS stories and class warfare. Which ever way it goes there will be extreme bad feelings and complaints of "oh well he only won because....." just like last election. Imagine how much more we could focus on car issues if we we all not exposed to the crap? Those that want crap could opt in. Some just want out but still see OFF TOPIC issues.


The question is how we can best accommodate your request, without over moderating the forum and restricting other members. Hopefully the upcoming poll will help us to figure that out.


It would seem obvious. Make a cat litter box for those that want to dump in it . No moderation would be needed. It could be open season for those in there. (short of physical threats) The rest of us would not see or need to see. I run some Facebook forums and that's the separation we've imposed on ourselves. There is a litter box area.
Works well and virtually no moderation is need (except the one individual that indeed made a threat to another member)

For those that want to point and say "oh the irony of someone...... that posts the opposing view wanting to liming being able to do so" ?
Again the real goal is to get what's left in the cat litter box out of my face and others have said as much also.

I'm pretty well done with this thread. I await the action or inaction of those making decisions.

[MickeyD]

Ok, I'm gonna say it. Now the one doing most of the pontification on the forums and occasional hard hitting wants to set up the rules for the rest of us. "Oops I just hit you in the nose. I now make the rule you can't defend yourself."

Unbelievable, Really? I'm not trying to be a jerk but com' on man!

[MickeyD]

Sorry guys. I want to make one more point. I would invite all of you to look at the front page of OT forum. Look at the author of most of them. Now he knows whats best for all and (bow) he'll set it up.
You know, I love ZR1's, I'm not a mechanic at all so I don't join in on all the forums, however I find General and Techinical very helpful. I also love the site. I also love to state my opinion when things I believe in are attacked. I won't sit quietly and be preached too. Don't give in to this.

[vilant]

Maybe we should hang a sign on the home page No politics and No religion. Why? Because those are 2 topics that people are overly passionate about and quick to be offended by(if your insulting their view point). I have nothing wrong with holding an intelligent, calm conversation on either topic. Problem is, that is not what was going on. I'd click on New Posts and see nothing but Obama is this and Romney is that. At least keep it to ONE thread not 200.

[Kevin]

sex politics and religion has changed to religion politics and cell phone operating systems. sad really

[scottfab]

It'll all calm down as soon as all the finger pointing stops.
I await and action or non action by the moderators.
I'm done.

In the meantime how about this. Rather than share your finger pointing and innuendo with the masses how about directing a private message to whomever you'd like to point a finger at?

[MickeyD]

It'll all calm down as soon as all the finger pointing stops.
I await and action or non action by the moderators.
I'm done.

In the meantime how about this. Rather than share your finger pointing and innuendo with the masses how about directing a private message to whomever you'd like to point a finger at?

In all seriousness Scott, how's your car running?:handshak::handshak::cheers::cheers: