Need another alignment.

[rhipsher]

1 1/2 years ago I rebushinged 90% of my suspension with poly and a fresh set of Vredestien tires. Then went and had a four point aligment done. Felt great and handled excellent. Tracked perfectly. But the one thing that bothered me was the the complete bushing kit did not really come complete. The kit doesn't include the front and rear swaybar bushings and end links. A couple of months ago I ordered the front and rear swaybar bushings and end links. Installed everything until I got down the the bushings that go into the lower control arm. I realized that there's no way that the poly bushing is going to fit inside that sleeve thats pressed in the lower control arm that the rubber bushing fit inside. Some of these instructions on these kits leave allot to be desired. I realized that the pressed sleeve has to come out in order to get the poly in. So I took a my dremel tool and split the sleeve and took them out. The poly bushings still were a press fit but once lined up a few taps and they went in perfectly. Afte putting 2000 miles on it I noticed that the front tires started to fallow the grooves in the road even though the steering felt tight and went I take my hands off tohe wheel it went perfectly straight. I popped the hood and noticed a little bit of uneven tire where on both left and right side. Wearing more on the outside edge. I didn't realize that replacing those bushings would change the alignment geometry that much but it did. When I take it back I'm not going to tell them that I added some more bushings because that would void the warranty on the first one. Lol! The moral of the story is any little suspension change means you will need another alignment.

[scottfab]

I'm most interested in how the alignment helps. I'm fighting a similar issue but have not replaced the sway bar bushings.
Maybe before they adjust anything you could find out what the alignment numbers are? Some shops do this already some not.
It would be instructive too to know if they say it's all withing specs.

[rhipsher]

Scott before I added the sway bar bushings the alignment was great. All the wear was totally even. As I was doing the job in my garage in the back of my mind the thought did cross my mind that I might need to get it aligned again. But it took a few months to see any tire wear. And sure enough it did. Its only $59 to get it done which is no big deal.

[GOLDCYLON]

Yeah you kind of need to do this anytime you adjust anything. I had to do a 4 wheel thrust angle after installing the DRM Coilovers and all the bushings and later again after changing the trailing arm after going to heim banski setup.

[rhipsher]

I agree.

[XfireZ51]

I needed a new alignment yesterday when the nuts on the passenger side upper control arm backed off. All the shims dropped out with a loud POP while my wife and I were heading down the Indiana TollRoad at 75mph. Thought I had a flat when I pulled over and opened the hood. The shims were all lying on the frame rail. Fortunately, no harm but it cost me $200 for the tow and alignment at a nearby SEARS Automotive center. Now the bill is going back to the guy who did the alignment in the first place.

[GOLDCYLON]

I needed a new alignment yesterday when the nuts on the passenger side upper control arm backed off. All the shims dropped out with a loud POP while my wife and I were heading down the Indiana TollRoad at 75mph. Thought I had a flat when I pulled over and opened the hood. The shims were all lying on the frame rail. Fortunately, no harm but it cost me $200 for the tow and alignment at a nearby SEARS Automotive center. Now the bill is going back to the guy who did the alignment in the first place.


Damn DOM you are lucky it didnt nose dive causing an accident. GC

[XfireZ51]

Damn DOM you are lucky it didnt nose dive causing an accident. GC

Very lucky yes.

[rhipsher]

Damn! He forgot to tighten the bolts. That could have been serious.

[batchman]

Scott before I added the sway bar bushings the alignment was great. All the wear was totally even. As I was doing the job in my garage in the back of my mind the thought did cross my mind that I might need to get it aligned again. But it took a few months to see any tire wear. And sure enough it did. Its only $59 to get it done which is no big deal.

A sway bar should not affect the alignment, they only work on one-side loads and should be unloaded at rest. That said I have preload on my current front sway bar (meaning you have to put some tension on it to get it in place). I have been surprised and chagrined to find nobody with a ready adjustable front sway bar link for these cars. Only a couple of joints and a threaded rod, maybe it's too simple for someone to pull together as a product.

What I'm really saying here is you don't need an alignment, just an adjustable sway bar link to take the tension out of it at rest. But they don't exist...

BTW if you're seeing wear on your outer shoulders I'd suggest you need more negative camber if you can get it. This means pulling shims out of the upper control arm mount and some "alignment" places don't seem to want to do that, or do so poorly as seen above. If you have two thin shims the same thickness on the front upper control arm mounts I'd suggest yanking them beforehand. That way you can tighten them up properly yourself.

Cheers,
- Jeff

[rhipsher]

A sway bar should not affect the alignment, they only work on one-side loads and should be unloaded at rest. That said I have preload on my current front sway bar (meaning you have to put some tension on it to get it in place). I have been surprised and chagrined to find nobody with a ready adjustable front sway bar link for these cars. Only a couple of joints and a threaded rod, maybe it's too simple for someone to pull together as a product.

What I'm really saying here is you don't need an alignment, just an adjustable sway bar link to take the tension out of it at rest. But they don't exist...

BTW if you're seeing wear on your outer shoulders I'd suggest you need more negative camber if you can get it. This means pulling shims out of the upper control arm mount and some "alignment" places 4don't seem to want to do that, or do so poorly as seen above. If you have two thin shims the same thickness on the front upper control arm mounts I'd suggest yanking them beforehand. That way you can tighten them up properly yourself.

Cheers,
- Jeff Thats absolutely what has to happen. Shims need to be removed from the top control arm to get the camber back to where it needs to be. NTB is where I get it done. They put it up on a special rack where there's a sensor arm on each tire that moves around the tire to the computer. They do a great job there. I suspect the end link bushings that mount into the lower control arm is the geometry change point.

[rhipsher]

I'm at NTB right now getting it done. The guy comes outside to take a look and get info on the tires size ect. And when I popped the hood so he could check the tread depth he just stared at that engine for 15the seconds and said "pretty". He ask if its a daily driver. I said no it's just a toy. He says nice toy. I said yea. I like it allot.;)

[XfireZ51]

Damn! He forgot to tighten the bolts. That could have been serious.

The nuts were backed off, especially the front one on the passenger side. I guess one explanation might be that he didn't "seat" the bolts properly, then tightened. Overtime, the bolt head may have finally popped into place immediately creating slack enough for the shims to fall loose. Just a hypothesis.

[rhipsher]

Sounds about right Dom. I know that the back side of those bolts have to be oriented correctly in oreder to seat into the rectangle before tightening.

[rhipsher]

I just got done with the alignment and it's perfect again. Doesn't follow the grooves in the road anymore. So Jeff putting those bushings in obviously did change the geometry. They are nothing like the stock rubber endlink bushing. They are two bushings that fit together like a puzzle. A poly sway bar bushing and a poly tapered thrust washer.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn63/keeno1970/2012-08-28_20-50-22_951.jpg

[batchman]

I just got done with the alignment and it's perfect again. Doesn't follow the grooves in the road anymore. So Jeff putting those bushings in obviously did change the geometry. They are nothing like the stock rubber endlink bushing. They are two bushings that fit together like a puzzle. A poly sway bar bushing and a poly tapered thrust washer.


Ayup, you've got preload. I've got to get on coming up with the rod end approach, one of these days. It's the length of the end links that needs to be adjustable to keep it from affecting things at rest.

I'm fixing to do a spring and shock swap and will be trying to corner weight the car, when doing so you disconnect the sway bar to avoid the preload affecting the measurement. I might weigh before/after the swaybars to see just how much those endlinks are doing to me, and presumably to you too.

Best,
- Jeff

[scottfab]

I just got done with the alignment and it's perfect again. Doesn't follow the grooves in the road anymore. So Jeff putting those bushings in obviously did change the geometry. They are nothing like the stock rubber endlink bushing. They are two bushings that fit together like a puzzle. A poly sway bar bushing and a poly tapered thrust washer.


Where did you get the kit for the sway bar?

[GOLDCYLON]

Where did you get the kit for the sway bar?


Mine was a Prothane kit

[scottfab]

Mine was a Prothane kit

Perfect. Found their site. thanks

[rhipsher]

Yep! Mines Prothane to. Great product. Just don't get that super grease in your hair. It's like tree sap and youll never get it out. But it does wonders to lube the bushings and eliminates the squeaks.