Member's Only?

[Aurora40]

Maybe it's time we change to members only being able to post?
This subject is getting old...
Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm not PC...

I thought this was an interesting point, and one worth discussion apart from the bitch-fest that one person's inquiry about his newsletter turned into.

Though I am not a member, I can identify with the sentiment. Hearing the same people criticize the Exec Committee and Registry in general over and over gets pretty old.

But at the same time, one of the great things about the Registry is how open it is. And *many* of the great and helpful posters here on the forum are not actual members. But they obviously contribute a lot, both digitally and in real life.

So anyway, I was reminded of an interesting philosophy applied to some "tech" workplaces: No ********.

In regards to work, the idea is this. It doesn't matter if you are really smart or your "fu" is the best. If you are an *******, as a group the company is better off without you. ******** stifle other peoples' productivity.

Basically, you avoid having to determine whether or not someone made some contributions to offset their jerkyness. If they are an *******, it doesn't matter what positive things they bring to the table.

The forum doesn't seem that different. ******** reduce the "fun" that participating in the forum delivers. And they drive some people away from participating at all. It doesn't matter if they offer some positives, if they are an *******, the place is better off without them.

If 80% of the drama comes from a small group of people, the ********, imagine how much better the forum would be with just the small change of removing them? Maybe you don't agree that the large majority of forum drama comes from a very small set of people, but it sure seems that way to me.

Anyway, just offering the idea up. And I'd say that if 2/3 of the moderators and exec committee think someone is an *******, then they are an *******.

The "********" replace a word that sounds like "glass bowls", in case that isn't clear.

http://bit.ly/cJ4rn2

[xlr8nflorida]

Yeah Bob makes total sense.

If 2/3 of the exec committee thinks you are an *** because you call them out on their lack of performance then you get banned.

Sounds more like a dictatorship to me.:dancing

[Aurora40]

Sounds more like a dictatorship to me.:dancing
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's because you are a pinhead.

Roughly 12 people voting on something = Dictatorship? I would have suggested we could just have you determine who they are, but that would require a contribution from you. I'd think you'd be on board with this suggestion, because it allows you to complain about the job others would have to do. Well, unless anyone thinks you're an *******, I guess... :neutral:

[xlr8nflorida]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's because you are a pinhead.

Roughly 12 people voting on something = Dictatorship? I would have suggested we could just have you determine who they are, but that would require a contribution from you. I'd think you'd be on board with this suggestion, because it allows you to complain about the job others would have to do. Well, unless anyone thinks you're an *******, I guess... :neutral:

Bob, actually, I know several members on this board and they are not in agreement with you. However, several of the members that know you personally, well I won't say what they say about you.

Honestly, how you defend someone who can't put out more then 1 or 2 newsletters in 2 years and can't keep a homepage up to date is beyond me. I'm all about accountability and getting the job done.

Why don't you pay your dues up, buy a ZR-1 and become a Member.

[Aurora40]

Bob, actually, I know several members on this board and they are not in agreement with you. However, several of the members that know you personally, well I won't say what they say about you.


Wow! So you not only run "several" large businesses, put out "several" large newsletters, but you speak for "several" important people!

^-- If anyone is working on this guys' NCM nomination package, I want in! This is one special guy!

On topic to anyone else, I'd be interested in any opinions you might have. Don't let this pettiness derail the original point.

[scottfab]

hmmm name calling.
Never a good idea IMHO.
No possible excuse.

[Kevin]

pissing match aside, no this shouldn't be members only. there's a members only section now and what gets posted there? nothing. the registry and the net are two separate things, always have been, always should be

[ZZZZZR1]

pissing match aside, no this shouldn't be members only. there's a members only section now and what gets posted there? nothing. the registry and the net are two separate things, always have been, always should be

I could be wrong, but I think Bob meant these types of discussions.

Not this section.

David

[Kevin]

I could be wrong, but I think Bob meant these types of discussions.

Not this section.

David

well...i've been wrong before. Ask my wife

[Aurora40]

pissing match aside, no this shouldn't be members only. there's a members only section now and what gets posted there? nothing. the registry and the net are two separate things, always have been, always should be

Yeah, I don't think Members Only would be a good way to go either. There are lots of great contributors who are not paying members. Hence the basic point of my post. :) It was in response to someone suggesting (not necessarily seriously) that the forum be members-only.

What do you do about people who don't add value, and just complain about everything? Nothing? Something? Do they negatively impact the general forum?

[xlr8nflorida]

Yeah, I don't think Members Only would be a good way to go either. There are lots of great contributors who are not paying members. Hence the basic point of my post. :) It was in response to someone suggesting (not necessarily seriously) that the forum be members-only.

What do you do about people who don't add value, and just complain about everything? Nothing? Something? Do they negatively impact the general forum?

So who does not add value and who determines if they add value?

[Z Factor]

First a general suggestion/warning.

While it is fine to exchange ideas in a discussion and disagree with each other, it must remain above the belt and not get to the point of personal insults/name calling. Feel free to disagree with the persons view if it differs from your own, but do not attack the person themselves.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I thought this was an interesting point, and one worth discussion apart from the bitch-fest that one person's inquiry about his newsletter turned into.



Hi Bob,

Since your thread is related to posting on the forum, it will be moved to the forum news section.

As to your general inquiry, I do not believe anyone has ever seriously suggested doing such a thing. My view, for what it is worth is articulated in the following post;

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showpost.php?p=147345&postcount=43

From time to time we will have tempers flare or frustrations boil over as you alluded to regarding the heated discussion about the newsletter.

However with most mature adults, they are able to work it out, and cooler heads prevail in the long run.

:cheers:

[Aurora40]

Hi Bob,

Since your thread is related to posting on the forum, it will be moved to the forum news section.

As to your general inquiry, I do not believe anyone has ever seriously suggested doing such a thing. My view, for what it is worth is articulated in the following post;

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showpost.php?p=147345&postcount=43

From time to time we will have tempers flare or frustrations boil over as you alluded to regarding the heated discussion about the newsletter.

However with most mature adults, they are able to work it out, and cooler heads prevail in the long run.

:cheers:
Hey Jim, I'd love to read your view, but it is not accessible to me. I assume it's in the member's only section.

In specific, though, the newsletter thing is not new. Do you feel like the various times it has come up, it has been "worked out" and cooler heads prevailed? To me it seems like it just loses momentum, but will flare right up again as soon as the "critics" find a new opening. For example, the current thread where a member asked about newsletters and his membership status. He got his access taken care of, and possibly his questions answered. Who knows though, the "critics" honed in on it and turned it into a bitch-fest. I don't think the OP even posted past the second page of that 9+ page disaster.

The thread has been moved, so I can't copy some of the choicer quotes, but you think that kind of criticism isn't toxic to the forum and the registry? Basically 9 pages of people, who are not members, making demands of the executive committee? Or vehemently critcising their volunteer efforts? How often can this boil over before the burns don't heal?

I will go out on a limb here and say that I think you recognize some conversations are not healthy for the forum. For example you generally have felt that way about criticism over ***'ing out Corvette Forum links. Do you feel that some of the more venomous posts in the most recent (or any past one, really) newsletter thread are less harmful?

I appreciate your insight and opinion, though. You obviously care about, and have taken effort to ensure that, the forum is the best it can be. :cheers:

[Kevin]

What do you do about people who don't add value, and just complain about everything? Nothing? Something? Do they negatively impact the general forum?

You've got an Ignore list.

[Z Factor]

Hey Jim, I'd love to read your view, but it is not accessible to me. I assume it's in the member's only section.




Here is the post I linked, republished so that you can read it.

Bold = previous posts;

First of all, I do not believe anyone has ever seriously suggested making the forum a paid club members only forum. I have been a paid member from the beginning as well as having administered the forum from it's infancy, so I know of what I speak.
While we always try to encourage non club members to join, it has never been required. For lack of a better way to put it, having an open forum is one of the best recruitment tools for the club. Sure there will be those who pop in, get an answer or two and then are never heard from again, but that is to be expected. However many people coming here for the first time get exposed to the members of the club and establish relationships/friendships. Once that happens a decent number decide to join more for the people than just a general interest in ZR-1's.
Furthermore the forum also serves as the best feedback to the club from those who have not joined for XYZ reason, or those who have left the club and air their grievances.

While I do not directly get involved in club business because of a self imposed neutrality stance, I can assure you that current and former club board members are aware of the complaints, and much of it is due to the ability to post it here.
Lets face it, no one likes criticism, but to be successful in life people need to accept that critics will always be around, and they should use that criticism as a means to improve their product. So aside from a means to communicate with friends/enthusiasts, the forum serves as a suggestion box for the club as well. To take a suggestion box down to avoid critics would only be a means to cut off ones nose to spite their face.

I do not presume to speak for the current BOD's, but I believe they, despite a few hiccups along the way, want to improve. They obviously have a passion for ZR-1's and the club, otherwise they would not have volunteered their time and effort. Your continued feedback via the forum is the best way for them to gauge how well they are doing, and a means of taking suggestions and improving the club.

So please feel free to make suggestions and constructive criticism as that is part of why the forum exists. Just keep in mind that they are human, and your elected volunteers, so try to keep it pro-active/business-like, and not make it personal. Everyone will be better served as a result.

Here are couple more posts in the thread;

One of the things I've enjoyed on this site is that there are very few "CF Iron Chef" moments. The site is very laid back and none of the moderators are Life time Ban happy. You can pretty much speak your mind as long as you don't really over due it. It would be unfortunate if things change.


I must say that posts like this are really appreciated since at times it seems as if members do not notice or make mention of it. :handshak:


I have always strived to allow members to express themselves so long as they do it in a reasonable and respectful manner. I have always instructed the mods to temper their personal feelings and try to find a way to reason with someone who has crossed the line, rather than ban them. Even when we get requests to suspend/ban members for XYZ, we instead try to let the person know what they might have done wrong, and suggest they conduct themselvess in a different manner. Fortunately most everyone here is reasonable and responsive to that approach. No one likes to be treated like a child, or have a forum that acts more like a nanny state. Instead our forum is a place where adults can conduct themselves as such.

I am very proud of the fact we have never permanently banned anyone other than spammers. Even those few who are very difficult to deal with during an emotional situation they were going through were only suspended for short periods of time, and then only after multiple attempts to reason with them have failed. The forum will always continue in that tradition so long as I am the administrator.



1 newsletter in 2 years is a few hiccups?



I did not mean to imply that there are not legitimate complaints, or to minimize them.
I was simply trying to say that despite the problems articulated in this thread and others, it is not as if the current or former BOD's are not aware of them.

Like I said, I do not get involved in club business or comment on it because I have always viewed the forum as a neutral place for members of both the club and forum to interact without fear of reprisals.
I have never been on the BOD, nor do I intend to, as I am happy to run the forum and try to be as neutral as possible.

To that end, if you feel as if there are problems with the forum (not the club website as that is outside of my purview) lets see if I can help out. Feel free to PM me or post a thread in that section to address it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Rather than risk being redundant, I will allow these reprinted posts to answer a few of your inquiries. If you wish to ask other questions or the ones you posed are not adequately covered, feel free to ask anything you like, and I will do my best to be candid with you.

On a personal note I want to thank you for the kind words. It is nice to know that forum members appreciate the work I and the other moderators have done over the years on behalf of the forum. :handshak:

:cheers:

[xlr8nflorida]

He got his access taken care of, and possibly his questions answered. Who knows though, the "critics" honed in on it and turned it into a bitch-fest. I don't think the OP even posted past the second page of that 9+ page disaster.

Did he now, you say possibly he got it taken care of? I didn't see where he was getting a refund? Nor did I see a post from the VP or President addressing the issue. Which if you read his email, its straight and to the point.

Where is the data on the Membership for 2011 and 2012 and what refunds are needed?

Basically 9 pages of people, who are not members, making demands of the executive committee? Or vehemently critcising their volunteer efforts? How often can this boil over before the burns don't heal?

What you fail to recognize is the posts are from past Members asking them to make good on their word. Guess what Bob, it wouldn't have to be 9 pages if the LEADERSHIP would ever show their face and post in the thread.

Instead the VP & President pretend like they don't see it for a week and just ignore it. Instead you get a post from the Events Manager saying there are some things going on behind the scenes or say it will be discussed at Carlisle etc.

Yeah, great way to run an organization :rolleyes:

Take for example over 1.5 years ago, I commented that the homepage can't even be updated on a regular basis, its often 4-12 months outdated.

That is something that can be fixed in 15 minutes. I was told this would be taken care of 1.5 years ago by David. Yet, look at the homepage - always outdated.

So is it really a bitchfest or making people accountable who said they wanted to be in a leadership position.

I don't care if the job is paid or not, you took the position then have some character and integrity and finish the job.

[scottfab]

snip........
Rather than risk being redundant, I will allow these reprinted posts to answer a few of your inquiries. If you wish to ask other questions or the ones you posed are not adequately covered, feel free to ask anything you like, and I will do my best to be candid with you.
snip........


You know that L98, LT4, LT5 label under the user name on the left of each post? What if this was changed to "Member" or "Non-Member" ?
I think this info should be more visible.

[Z Factor]

You know that L98, LT4, LT5 label under the user name on the left of each post? What if this was changed to "Member" or "Non-Member" ?
I think this info should be more visible.

Ok, I read your suggestion, however do not understand your reason for suggesting it.

What means to an end would doing that provide?

[scottfab]

Ok, I read your suggestion, however do not understand your reason for suggesting it.

What means to an end would doing that provide?

I stated the reason here it is again.
"I think this info should be more visible."

What I'd do with this information when I see it would be up to me
and presumably others who would like to know where the input is coming from.
Similarly, when comments about our government come from France it's different (to me) that if it comes from a US citizen and tax payer.

(added later)
Also the nomenclature L98, LT4, LT5 is not real useful

[Z Factor]

I stated the reason here it is again.
"I think this info should be more visible."

What I'd do with this information when I see it would be up to me
and presumably others who would like to know where the input is coming from.
Similarly, when comments about our government come from France it's different (to me) that if it comes from a US citizen and tax payer.

(added later)
Also the nomenclature L98, LT4, LT5 is not real useful

That is what I suspected, but did not want to presume.

First I will take the easy one. I grant you that the engine designations are not vital. Still most forums have ways of distinguishing "newbies" from "old timers" and/or active participants from occasional posters/lurkers. So our forums method is a Corvette related way of doing it. Some people view it as a badge of honor, others are, shall we say ambivalent.

As to the general designation of currently paid club members vs. former/non club members, I'm not sure how positive a thing that would be for the overall forums well being.
Would anyone be any less inclined to read and/or respect the view of a former member than a current one? Lets say a respected tuner like Mark or Scott made a technical contribution to the forum, would it carry any less weight than if they were a paid member. Are the positive contributions of non club members any less valuable than those who are current club members? I think we would need to answer those questions for ourselves to see how useful it would be for everyone to know.
Without having thought it through, one concern I would have is that some might start taking an us vs. them mentality.

The forum has always been a place where everyone is welcome to enjoy and learn about ZR-1's whether they are a budding enthusiast, own several, or are former owners who still enjoy coming here and contributing to the forum.
So while it is certainly something to consider, we would not want to do anything to create fractious dissension, or to change the aforementioned open arms tradition on which the forum was founded.

:cheers:

[scottfab]

snip.........
First I will take the easy one. I grant you that the engine designations are not vital. Still most forums have ways of distinguishing "newbies" from "old timers" and/or active participants from occasional posters/lurkers. So our forums method is a Corvette related way of doing it. Some people view it as a badge of honor, others are, shall we say ambivalent.

Not really a fan of it and it has holes. It would seem to breed automatic newbie status to someone very experience with the ZR-1.
and other holes but.... no biggie

As to the general designation of currently paid club members vs. former/non club members, I'm not sure how positive a thing that would be for the overall forums well being.
Would anyone be any less inclined to read and/or respect the view of a former member than a current one? Lets say a respected tuner like Mark or Scott made a technical contribution to the forum, would it carry any less weight than if they were a paid member. Are the positive contributions of non club members any less valuable than those who are current club members? I think we would need to answer those questions for ourselves to see how useful it would be for everyone to know.
Without having thought it through, one concern I would have is that some might start taking an us vs. them mentality.

I know it may seem not positive but would reflect fact. Non members always have a choice to pay the very few $ to be a member.
Does it take away from anyone's technical contribution? Not at all. I don't think anyone would think that and I certainly did not imply or say that.

The forum has always been a place where everyone is welcome to enjoy and learn about ZR-1's whether they are a budding enthusiast, own several, or are former owners who still enjoy coming here and contributing to the forum.
So while it is certainly something to consider, we would not want to do anything to create fractious dissension, or to change the aforementioned open arms tradition on which the forum was founded.


I can see your point and agree this is a place where all are welcome to learn and help support the car. What better reason to show that support then to be a member. And while this simple designation (ie Member or Non-Member) would not make diddly difference to me personally if it were shown on my profile, I do see that many would want to not have it known they are not paying members. As I understand it, our dues pays for this forum, I mean what costs that there are. I see that "Moderators" have special designations and yet that does not divide us. How can the designation "Member" do so?

Frankly, I'm really not sure why I should pay dues when I could just drop out and get all this free and no one reading my post would know I'm not paying................ so....... hmmmm. Something to seriously ponder.
Any way, it's just a suggestion not really a criticism from a paid up member.

[Z Factor]

Not really a fan of it and it has holes. It would seem to breed automatic newbie status to someone very experience with the ZR-1.
and other holes but.... no biggie



I know it may seem not positive but would reflect fact. Non members always have a choice to pay the very few $ to be a member.
Does it take away from anyone's technical contribution? Not at all. I don't think anyone would think that and I certainly did not imply or say that.



I can see your point and agree this is a place where all are welcome to learn and help support the car. What better reason to show that support then to be a member. And while this simple designation (ie Member or Non-Member) would not make diddly difference to me personally if it were shown on my profile, I do see that many would want to not have it known they are not paying members. As I understand it, our dues pays for this forum, I mean what costs that there are. I see that "Moderators" have special designations and yet that does not divide us. How can the designation "Member" do so?

Frankly, I'm really not sure why I should pay dues when I could just drop out and get all this free and no one reading my post would know I'm not paying................ so....... hmmmm. Something to seriously ponder.
Any way, it's just a suggestion not really a criticism from a paid up member.

I know what you mean about newbie status for old timers who are new to the forum.
I've received my share of questions/comments about it, such as "I've owned Corvettes before you were even born, so why start me with a lowly L98".
The funnier ones have said "my ZR-1 has it's original engine, so it should read LT5, not LT4". This of course not knowing it is just tied to their post count.

For some it is a big deal to reach LT5 status, others not so much. Believe it or not, the forum was not always this busy. Mom and I were trying to come up with every and anything imaginable to stimulate participation. So it was actually a positive inducement for some to post more to reach the top status. I suspect the same is still true for some. Heck every once in a while a forum member will post like crazy to reach LT5, then drop off to practically lurker status.

I see your point on the member designation in that some might want to display it as a badge of honor. Also it might be important for some to become a paying member to feel as if they were able to visually show their support.
It is probably akin to those who put their membership status or club officer position in their signatures. Different things have meaning to some such as post counts, reputation points, titles such as "King of the Vette Babes"(I wonder who that might be) :wink: .
To others, they prefer to keep a low profile, and forum titles/designations mean nothing.
As you might imagine we do get complaints from some members that actually say "poster X is not even a member of the club, so he should not be allowed to voice an opinion". Of course they are speaking of criticism, not compliments. Needless to say humans are tribal by nature, and it does not take much to start the us vs. them mentality.
Still it is something to consider.

:cheers:

[Dynomite]

Ok, I read your suggestion, however do not understand your reason for suggesting it.

What means to an end would doing that provide?

I am new here and the difficulty I have other than my inherent peronality flaws where I find humor in almost anything......:D

What is List Server?
I know about the Zr1netregistry.com site and the associated Maintenance section....and I think there are sections over there (zr1netregistry.com) that only Paid Members can visit (you need a password).

I am also confused regarding the comingling of what are called General Members (those with IDs) and Paying Members (those with IDs as well as having paid annual Dues) with Passwords.

My Biggest difficulty is keeping up with the "jargon" used and missused on the Forum as I do not know what guys/gals are talking about exactly most of the time.

Same goes with Technical Jargon.....which I always try to explain the "Jargon" first in posts. I did not even know what HOTB stood for.

I am now even confused what PM stands for :sign10:

I am also confused that threads can start in General Members (those with IDs) section and then those threads be moved to Paid Members (those with IDs and Paying Dues having Passwords) section just when I was getting interested in contributing (some call it debating).

Which makes that thread move to Paid Members section (those with Passwords) the same as thread CLOSURE for those General Members (those with IDs but not Paying Dues) who had an interest in the thread.

Cliff

[A26B]

I like scottfab's idea of identifying Registry Member & would suggest it be placed just as "administrator" is under Z Factor's name.

The "Join Date" could be modified to Forum Member since: 02/10. No need for a Registry Member date.

I think when lurkers or forum members see "Registry Member" it will spawn a question, what's that/ how do I get to join the Registry. There are many forum members who are of the mistaken belief that they are Registry members. it could be an asset for recruitment of new members.

Good discussion Scottfab & Z Factor!!

[Dynomite]

I like scottfab's idea of identifying Registry Member & would suggest it be placed just as "administrator" is under Z Factor's name.

The "Join Date" could be modified to Forum Member since: 02/10. No need for a Registry Member date.

I think when lurkers or forum members see "Registry Member" it will spawn a question, what's that/ how do I get to join the Registry. There are many forum members who are of the mistaken belief that they are Registry members. it could be an asset for recruitment of new members.

Good discussion Scottfab & Z Factor!!

What is a Registry Member?
What is a Forum Member?
What am I? :D

Jerry if you would kindly respond.....

See my post #26 above....

Thank you,

Cliff

P.S. It appears to me you guys want visible labels now going from "Reputation Points" which was a label indicating Forum/Thread contributions to a label indicating if you pay dues or not :p

Which Reputation Points were Eliminated by DaveK apparently unilaterally.

[A26B]

What is a Registry Member?
What is a Forum Member?
What am I? :D


I think you know this already, inasmuch as you have been both at the same time.

A Registry Member is a current member of The ZR1 Net Registry organization and may also be a Forum member if desired.

A Forum member has a user name & password for the The ZR-1 net Registry Forums and may also be a member of the The ZR1 Net Registry if his membership is current.

[Dynomite]

I think you know this already, inasmuch as you have been both at the same time. And not even knowing it :p
That is tantamount to being married to myself :D

A Registry Member is a current member of The ZR1 Net Registry organization and may also be a Forum member if desired.

A Forum member has a user name & password password if the member has paid dues? for the The ZR-1 net Registry Forums and may also be a member of the The ZR1 Net Registry if his membership is current. If his dues are paid in full?


I just do not understand what a Member of the ZR1 Net Registry organization is??

[WB9MCW]

Different things have meaning to some such as post counts, reputation points, titles such as "King of the Vette Babes"(I wonder who that might be).

Proud to be a founding member, regular yearly member and regular forum contributor!:proud:
Almost forgot the best one A ZR-1 OWNER!!!:cheers:

[Dynomite]

Different things have meaning to some such as post counts, reputation points, titles such as "King of the Vette Babes"(I wonder who that might be).

Proud to be a founding member, regular yearly member and regular forum contributor!:proud:

Bryan :p

There is only one King of the Vette Babes

Is that a ZR-1 or ZR1? :D

[Aurora40]

Lets say a respected tuner like Mark or Scott made a technical contribution to the forum, would it carry any less weight than if they were a paid member.

I think Scott has struck on an interesting and simple idea. And as he stated and you acknowledged, no one would dismiss their technical information just due to that, anymore than they would due to their low post count or "L98" rating.

But if someone is saying "Hey, the Registry website is way out of date, someone should get off their lazy *** and update it" or "the current state of the newsletters is shameful", it seems that their membership status is rather more relevant.

Forum members are already grouped by their membership status for access to members-only areas. This would simply make it more visible to others.

[Aurora40]

You've got an Ignore list.

I wasn't suggesting this as a way to solve a problem specifically for me. That thread was up to 8 pages in like 4 days. I'd guess that there is more than just one person bothered by some of the comments some posters make. Maybe not, that's why I put it out there for discussion.

Do you think threads like that hurt the forum or the Registry, Kevin?

[Z Factor]

1) What is List Server?

2) I know about the Zr1netregistry.com site and the associated Maintenance section....and I think there are sections over there (zr1netregistry.com) that only Paid Members can visit (you need a password).

3) I am also confused regarding the comingling of what are called General Members (those with IDs) and Paying Members (those with IDs as well as having paid annual Dues) with Passwords.



4) I am now even confused what PM stands for

5) I am also confused that threads can start in General Members (those with IDs) section and then those threads be moved to Paid Members (those with IDs and Paying Dues having Passwords) section just when I was getting interested in contributing (some call it debating).

6) Which makes that thread move to Paid Members section (those with Passwords) the same as thread CLOSURE for those General Members (those with IDs but not Paying Dues) who had an interest in the thread.

Cliff

Hi Cliff,

I numbered your questions to make it easier to respond.

1) The listserver is an email communication device that Mom helped set up years ago as a means for ZR-1 enthusiasts to ask questions and keep each other informed about various ZR-1 related issues/parts/etc.
It is completely separate from the club website, and forum. Some people love it and use it exclusively.
Others do not care for it because of the potential volume of emails that sometime occur. Some choose to participate in all three.

2) What I commonly refer to the website is the Zr1netregistry.com site. Most information is accessible to anyone, but there is a paid club members only section as well.

3) I think Jerry was able to answer your follow up post very well in his response to you.

4) Sometimes in this medium it is hard to gauge what a persons intent is because you cannot hear their tone/inflection, nor see facial expressions. In this case I know what you are referring to with tongue in cheek sarcasm. However don't be surprised if some think you are a little off kilter for asking.

5 & 6) Ideally it would make a moderators job much easier if threads were posted in the appropriate sections. In most cases they are, yet some are accidentally posted in the wrong section. So if poster X places a WTS ad in the Corvette Babes section, Bryan will certainly make us aware it needs to be moved(and rightly so).:mrgreen:

In the case of the thread you are referring to, it was devolving in several areas, but the OP related directly to a paid club members concern. It was therefore moved after a period of time to the appropriate section. The trouble of course is that the members only section is one of the few areas non paid club members do not have access to. So I certainly see your frustration when this occasionally occurs. One solution of course would be to re-up your membership to have access.
That is not to say non members or former members cannot discuss their suggestions/constructive criticism. However if it relates directly to a paid club member issue, it will typically wind up there.

BTW - The member in question was placed in club member status to where he has access to that section, and the thread remains open there.

[Z Factor]

I will be back to address more posts, but need to be away for a couple of hours.

Different things have meaning to some such as post counts, reputation points, titles such as "King of the Vette Babes"(I wonder who that might be).

Proud to be a founding member, regular yearly member and regular forum contributor!:proud:
Almost forgot the best one A ZR-1 OWNER!!!:cheers:

Bryan,

I suspect your regular contributions are a favorite among the forum. Your title is well deserved.

:cheers:

[Dynomite]

Hi Cliff,

I numbered your questions to make it easier to respond. You and Paul are doing more highlighting, bolding, and numbering lately :D

4) Sometimes in this medium it is hard to gauge what a persons intent is because you cannot hear their tone/inflection, nor see facial expressions. In this case I know what you are referring to with tongue in cheek sarcasm. However don't be surprised if some think you are a little off kilter for asking.

Maybe that was just for you and the others could just get a laugh......hope you thought about it :handshak:

In the case of the thread you are referring to, it was devolving in several areas, but the OP related directly to a paid club members concern. It was therefore moved after a period of time to the appropriate section. The trouble of course is that the members only section is one of the few areas non paid club members do not have access to. So I certainly see your frustration when this occasionally occurs. One solution of course would be to re-up your membership to have access. I guess I will pass for now as I think it would be too much frustration to get further involved with a certain explanation posted today or yesturday either in that thread or other area for Paid Members only. That explanation is corrupt in regard to the facts.

"It is impossible to have a rational discussion with an irrational person."

That statement requires one to suggest and treat the other as irrational which means end of dicussion when in fact it may have been a very rational question. My positon is simple.....I ask very rational questions and if the questions are not understood, just ask for further explanation. If the questions are uncomfortable to answer, attacking the messenger is not the best approach.....but suit yourselves.



I am on my way out to work on my 90' (L98). I was tooling along at 80 mph last night on Route 99 and in front of me was a large Dead Dog (or animal of that size) in center of my lane. I was trapped in my lane by other vehicles. I ran over said Dead Dog at 80 mph with a BIG thump....and now have blood and whatever else hanging from my headers, transmission, brackets, and front air duct....I think there is no serious structural damage just messy all the way underneath :D

[scottfab]

lsnip
I ran over said Dead Dog at 80 mph with a BIG thumb....and now have blood and whatever else hanging from my headers, transmission, brackets, and front air duct....I think there is no serious structural damage just messy all the way underneath :D

Ok, I didn't need to finish my sandwich anyway.......:)

[Kevin]

Ok, I didn't need to finish my sandwich anyway.......:)
weight reduction, he did you a favor

[Dynomite]

Ok, I didn't need to finish my sandwich anyway.......:)

I just checked.....I was watching gauges immediately after hitting Dead Animal the size of a large coon in the middle of the road to see if anything changed. My AC cooler has some .......Doggie stuff on it but all the fins are in fine shape. Front screen for air intake has some...some....you still eating? :D

Exhaust brackets have some...some....oh...well....you get the picture......anyway....apparently you can run over a Dead animal the size of a BIG Coon at 80 mph and survive with just a pressure washing.

I guess I owe you a Subway Sandwich.....sorry about that ;)

Cliff

P.S. This is related to Topic Member's Only because Member's Only should see such graffic details while eating sandwiches :D

[xlr8nflorida]

I like scottfab's idea of identifying Registry Member & would suggest it be placed just as "administrator" is under Z Factor's name.

The "Join Date" could be modified to Forum Member since: 02/10. No need for a Registry Member date.

I think when lurkers or forum members see "Registry Member" it will spawn a question, what's that/ how do I get to join the Registry. There are many forum members who are of the mistaken belief that they are Registry members. it could be an asset for recruitment of new members.

Good discussion Scottfab & Z Factor!!


So you can post in this thread but can't post in the other thread regarding the lack of the newsletter for 2 years?

How many members there are in the registry for 2011 and 2012?

How many people are getting refunds for the newsletter pursuant to 501 C status?

What difference does it make if the input comes from a paying member or not. My input was the same whether I am paying $65 or not. I was one of the first Registry members over a decade ago, does anybody care or should they care? NO.

The input is based on the performance of the board and you don't have to be a member to see the lack of performance.

What would be an asset is to run the club the way an organization should be. I'd have no problem with dues that cost a few hundred dollars if there was VALUE. If the $$ was used and accounted for in the proper way.

Also why don't you discuss all the things that are being done behind the scenes. The financials of the club, the reporting, the ownership of the forum, and all the nitty gritty. Members deserve to know instead of keeping it hush hush.

Refunds are due.......

[Dynomite]

I will be back to address more posts, but need to be away for a couple of hours.

:cheers:

Is it all that Bad :sign10:

[A26B]

So you can post in this thread but can't post in the other thread regarding the lack of the newsletter for 2 years?

How many members there are in the registry for 2011 and 2012?

How many people are getting refunds for the newsletter pursuant to 501 C status?

What difference does it make if the input comes from a paying member or not. My input was the same whether I am paying $65 or not. I was one of the first Registry members over a decade ago, does anybody care or should they care? NO.

The input is based on the performance of the board and you don't have to be a member to see the lack of performance.

What would be an asset is to run the club the way an organization should be. I'd have no problem with dues that cost a few hundred dollars if there was VALUE. If the $$ was used and accounted for in the proper way.

Also why don't you discuss all the things that are being done behind the scenes. The financials of the club, the reporting, the ownership of the forum, and all the nitty gritty. Members deserve to know instead of keeping it hush hush.

Refunds are due.......

Actually, if you were a member, you would be entitled to access the Registry Members Only forum and obtain that information, if you were interested enough to look it up. If you are not a member and would like to know the answers to your questions pertaining to the Registry, then I would recommend that you consider re-joining.

[Dynomite]

Actually, if you were a member, you would be entitled to access the Registry Members Only forum and obtain that information, if you were interested enough to look it up. If you are not a member and would like to know the answers to your questions pertaining to the Registry, then I would recommend that you consider re-joining.

I am not sure but I suspect he will pass on your recommendation.

That is to Not become a paying member so he does not run into this kind of Forum Board philosophy (philosophy represented by some Forum Board Members) even if he were interested enough to look it up......"It is impossible to have a rational discussion with an irrational person"

Or.....to be helpful why not just look the information up for him yourself and post for him to make it simple.
And/or you can just Ban him from your web site if you do not agree with him here.

Cliff

[xlr8nflorida]

I am not sure but I suspect he will pass on your recommendation.

That is to Not become a paying member so he does not run into this kind of Forum Board philosophy (philosophy represented by some Forum Board Members) even if he were interested enough to look it up......"It is impossible to have a rational discussion with an irrational person"

Or.....to be helpful why not just look the information up for him yourself and post for him to make it simple.

Cliff

Seriously Jerry? No Thanks.

You try to make Membership like its this "Exclusive Commodity" The cost of $65 is a joke. The reason Members fall out or don't want to join the Registry is because of POOR Leadership, lack of communication, no transparency and hidden agendas or conflict of interest. Funny how you ignored the other thread, but were posting on the board all week and you never fail to respond quickly when people want to buy parts from you.

The bottom line is the board does what it wants so paying the dues or being a member/non member is irrelevant. You don't face the music and address real issues and concerns but instead make up a bunch of excuses or why you can't execute. How about a few years back when we kept asking for the financial Documents but nobody would produce them? Even then there never was full disclosure just like on a bunch of other items. Then when they were produced it looked like a 4th grader did them and debits didn't equal credits.

So Jerry, please tell us why the newsletters haven't been produced and why the forum can't be updated on a regular basis?

Why don't you just admit you screwed up big time and thought it would be acceptable to not give the members what they were entitled to because that is exactly what happened. Except now, you have some members who want part of their dues back!

And will the members be given refunds for your lack of performance and execution of the newsletters in a timely fashion?


You feel its Members complaining. Here is a novel concept for you, listen to the Members, address their concerns and fix them. Then you won't have to have threads that are 9 pages long. That is what a True Leader does, they fix problems and lead their TEAM.

But you have no real excuse for your poor performance therefore you just ignore the threads.

A true leader should be judged by what he has not: Ego, arrogance, and self‑interest. A true leader sees his work as a self‑less service towards a higher purpose. As the sagists say leadership is not power and dominance. It is servitude.That doesn’t mean that a leader is weak. He derives great strength from his dedication to a purpose that is greater than himself.

When it comes time to take credit, he makes himself invisible. But he is the first to arrive at a time of need, and he will never shrink away in fear.

There is absolutely no accountability for the Board Members. There are major egos in place and the excuse of we are "volunteers" and we don't get paid gets old very quickly. Then the famous quote, "If you don't like it or can do better, why don't you run for office!"

Perhaps more of a servitude attitude would build a better organization. Also members who have the actual skill set to execute the demands of the job. When there was no newsletter, Dwight got thrown under the Bus and it was told to the Members that all the artwork got lost and the new software was very sophisticated. I called BS back then and it was BS. The artwork for the registry is such a joke, a graphic artist could recreate all of it easily in a few days at most. Let me guess you are still trying to find the artwork which is why no newsletters right? The whole situation is a joke and an embarrassment to the registry.

An entire board of guys can't produce 4 newsletters a year or 1 Newsletter every 3 months.

Newsletters that were part of Membership where people paid $65 dues.

Yet, the board decided they were not going to produce the Newsletter - Real Professional!

Then you choose to brush it under the rug, not respond (which is always the case) Imagine that, people want what they thought they paid for!!! Wow the nerve of some people, they are real jerks huh?

I can't even imagine how your accounting records look like especially pursuant to 501 C.

[A26B]

Seriously Jerry? No Thanks.

Yes, I was serious.

You try to make Membership like its this "Exclusive Commodity" The cost of $65 is a joke. The reason Members fall out or don't want to join the Registry is because of POOR Leadership, lack of communication, no transparency and hidden agendas or conflict of interest. Funny how you ignored the other thread, but were posting on the board all week and you never fail to respond quickly when people want to buy parts from you.

Nothing funny about me ignoring the "other thread." I did not respond simply because it was not in the proper venue to be discussing Registry business details about Registry Membership matters.

The bottom line is the board does what it wants so paying the dues or being a member/non member is irrelevant. You don't face the music and address real issues and concerns but instead make up a bunch of excuses or why you can't execute.

Well, that's your viewpoint and you are entitle to to that, I just don't suscribe to your ideology and I am in a position to be more informed on the subject of what the Executive Committee has done and is doing. BTW, The ZR1 Net Registry does not have a "board" per se.


How about a few years back when we kept asking for the financial Documents but nobody would produce them? Even then there never was full disclosure just like on a bunch of other items. Then when they were produced it looked like a 4th grader did them and debits didn't equal credits.

How about that? you're referring to a period before this Executive Committee was elected and you expect me to respond to something I had no involvement in?


So Jerry, please tell us why the newsletters haven't been produced per the and why the forum can't be updated on a regular basis? And will the members be given refunds for your lack of performance and execution of the newsletters in a timely fashion?

If I knew your name, I could respond to you in a like manner, but I don't because there was no information in your forum profile.

This question has been asked and answered... more than once. Aparrently, you are either no reading the replies or failing to comprehend. In either regard, there is nothing more to say on the subject.... in this particular forum.

[Dynomite]

If I knew your name, I could respond to you in a like manner, but I don't because there was no information in your forum profile.

This question has been asked and answered... more than once. Aparrently, you are either no reading the replies or failing to comprehend. In either regard, there is nothing more to say on the subject.... in this particular forum.

My name is Cliff AKA Dynomite......

rather than the Aparrently, you are either no reading the replies or failing to comprehend. In either regard, there is nothing more to say on the subject.... in this particular forum.

Why not just answer the question vice take shots.

I am with Mitt Romney when he told Harry Reid......."Put (post) up or shut up"

Cliff

[xlr8nflorida]

This question has been asked and answered... more than once. Aparrently, you are either no reading the replies or failing to comprehend. In either regard, there is nothing more to say on the subject.... in this particular forum.

I can comprehend just fine Jerry but since you are taking cheap shots apparently you can't spell! ;)

I don't need my answer privately. Answer in this public forum here.

Why is it that your team can't produce 8 newsletters over a 2 year period?

Why can't you update the web site on a regular basis where the homepage isn't 4-6 months outdated?

[Dynomite]

Why can't you update the web site on a regular basis where the homepage isn't 4-6 months outdated?

I can vouch for the fact the guys are working on this if you mean zr1netregistry.com......and doing a pretty good job (actually superb Job led by DaveK) but not available just yet.

Cliff

[xlr8nflorida]

I can vouch for the fact the guys are working on this if you mean zr1netregistry.com......and doing a pretty good job (actually superb Job led by DaveK) but not available just yet.

Cliff

I'm talking about the existing homepage edits which would take all of about 15 minutes.

[ZZZZZR1]

Ok. This is enough....