Surprise on the 4th of July!

[captcorvette]

Just wanted to wish everyone a safe, sane and enjoyable 4th of July. Its already after 9 in the morning here so I was going to take the Z out for a cruise to some of the various 4th of July functions that are going on with the American expat community.

Surprise! Dreaded no start. Same issue as before. VATs "Security" light came on and stayed on when turning on the key. Having two years worth of issues on this problem I tried everything I have been told to try in the past. No luck. Same problem.

OK roll with the punches! As someone famous once said "I roll with the punches so often I have rounded heels" came to mind.

Targa top off, weather-stripping all removed, cleaned and prepared for new weather-stripping to be installed. It will be a working at home 4th..

Once again hope everyone has a brilliant 4th of July holiday!:Eagle:
Wayne

[tomtom72]

:USFlag: Thanks Wayne! I hope you have a great 4th also!

:cheers:
Tom

[scottfab]

When you've tried all possible ideas to isolate start over at the beginning.
Do you have a different key to try? The resistive pellets in the keys have been know to crack and be come intermittent or otherwise contaminated.

Happy 4th to you too.

[gbrtng]

A friend found a broken wire at the ignition switch so the key resistor was not being measured. I don't remember the repair procedure, but it sounds like substituting the pellet resistor with a resistor of the same value downstream from the ignition switch might
get you going. Do you have section 8 of the service manual?

[John Boothby]

I use a little alcohol rub on the key pellet. I find this gets dirty and a little cleaning works!!

This has worked for me more than once. I now carry some alcohol swips with me in the glove box.

Happy 4th!!:flag:

[captcorvette]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. And yep have tried all except checking for a broken wire. Will put that on the list.

Have other nitpicking items that I can expend some energy on while the car is sitting with me trouble shooting different items. Won't give up but did take a ride in one of my other toys. Then came back and back at it. Good thing working on toys is one of the great joys of life eh?

Now time for all you guys on that side of the world to get back to the BBQ, suds and visiting with friends/family. :handshak:

[rhipsher]

Speaking of taking a july 4th cruise it is a beautiful day in the Houston jungle. The Z is looking fine just sitting in the garage ready to roll. I think I'll run some errands in it on my day off before heading over to my mother and father inlaws with the kids for BBQ. Delicious.

[zedrone]

Find yourself an electronics supply store. Get them to measure the resistance of the pellet in the key. Buy a 1/4 watt resistor as close to that value as you can. Resistors can be added in series, in other words a 10 ohms + 5 ohms = 15 ohms. You need to get within 10% (I think) of the key's value.

drop the underdash panel and find a thin two wire connector under the RH side of the steering column. I can't remember, but I think the wires are both brown or black. The connector is the same physical plug that your seatbelt recepticle uses to plug into the body harness (as a reference). Don't touch any yellow coated wires, those are for the airbag.

Just to make sure, you can unplug the connector and ohm the steering wheel side when you have the key in the ignition, the value will be the same (give or take).

take your resistor(s) and attach them to the computer (non-steering wheel) side of the circuit. The best way would be to cut the connector and solder your connections. This will permanently defeat the VATS and keep the problem from recurring.

Good luck,

Ed

[scottfab]

Find yourself an electronics supply store. Get them to measure the resistance of the pellet in the key. Buy a 1/4 watt resistor as close to that value as you can. Resistors can be added in series, in other words a 10 watt + 5 watt = 15 watts. You need to get within 10% (I think) of the key's value.
<snip>


I think the word "ohms" would work better than "watts" in 3 of the 4 places used.

[zedrone]

I think the word "ohms" would work better than "watts" in 3 of the 4 places used.

duh, lol

[Tyler Townsley]

Next time you pull the plenum run a wire to hot side of the starter route it so that you can touch the other end to the hot side of the battery to activate the starter, its the easiest way I know of. I use this on Queenie as she sits and for extended periods and when I need it to start I need it to START.

Tyler

[captcorvette]

Thank you everyone. I much appreciate all the advise and help.

I think I am part of the main problem. I assumed (yep I know what happens when we "*** u me". I have two different chips that I thought completely eliminated the VATs. Not so fast. They only tell the system to give the fuel. Nothing on the starter which is, of course, the other half of the problem.

I have 3 separate keys. The original key and two recent purchases. Did the research to find out how to use my digital volt meter to read the pellet. Mine is a #13 (if memory serves) 7900? Its early Saturday morning and my head is still a bit sleepy. Would have to check my notes and FSM to confirm the numbers.

Can build the resistor kit if need be but I really wanted to keep from adding wires, bits and alterations if possible. If not then will get out my duckbills and start cutting, splicing and inserting the patch wire as well documented in the solutions, and various other sites. Just sort of goes against my grain to have to do this to the car.

What REALLY has me perplexed is what is going on with the right headlight system that can activate the VATs? After replacing the bad headlight (early 3 wire) repair that was done with the correct 2 wire complete system the most recent problems started. Now headlights come on but neither will rotate to the up position. AND the "security" light is now on and no starter engagement of the starter. This is what is so confusing. Only two bloody wires and they are colour coded the same as original headlight had when repairing the accident.

I have a few other c-4's from '84 to '91. None have ever given me any issues with VATs. Two have almost 200,000 kms. with original keys and locks. Never any issues at all with VATs. Puzzles that I can't figure out really drive me round the bend.

[Paul in VA]

In my 1991 ZR-1, the thin orange the wire carying the pellet information was crushed inside the steering column and would intermittently short out. I think it was caused by the tilt mechanism/capability. Unfortunately, to find this crushed wire, the steering wheel was removed (along with various other parts) and finally the key switch and orange wire was removed. Lots of work, in my case, done by a specialized automotive locksmith. My car now has the original key switch moved down to the kick panel (so I can have VATS lockup by removing original key) and a new, non VATS key switch in the column for normal driving with the VATS being satisfied by the original key switch (only in use as a pellet reader now). Good Luck.

[captcorvette]

Paul I have suspected something like this as my steering colum is a bit wobbly but not near as much as my '85. Of course the '85 no VATs. However I am still perplexed if the headlight wiring may have an issue also as now no horn and no rotation of either headlight but both lights do come on just not rotating to the upper position.

I hate to but I have decided to shunt the starter relay to eliminate this problem. If I ever do have to pull the steering colum in the near future I will put a good look into the wiring.

Thanks again for the input.

[scottfab]

Paul I have suspected something like this as my steering colum is a bit wobbly but not near as much as my '85. Of course the '85 no VATs. However I am still perplexed if the headlight wiring may have an issue also as now no horn and no rotation of either headlight but both lights do come on just not rotating to the upper position.

I hate to but I have decided to shunt the starter relay to eliminate this problem. If I ever do have to pull the steering colum in the near future I will put a good look into the wiring.

Thanks again for the input.

No horn and no lights? I'd go after this hard. Sounds like more of a systemic problem with ground or 12v supply to the front of the car. But yes the column has all of these control wires too. (horn, lights, VATs)

[captcorvette]

Scott that is what in the back of my mind I have suspected but really didn't want to have to tear into. Sometimes it takes hearing what one suspects to give the extra push needed to get into a dreaded job.

I hate chasing sparks, plumbing and doing laundry so as you see this is in my BIG three. But will have to come to terms with the job and give it a go unless some magic information comes up in the FSM. Have read through this section a couple of times now but nothing has really come to mind. Time to do some exploratory surgery on the column. :confused:

[scottfab]

Scott that is what in the back of my mind I have suspected but really didn't want to have to tear into. Sometimes it takes hearing what one suspects to give the extra push needed to get into a dreaded job.

I hate chasing sparks, plumbing and doing laundry so as you see this is in my BIG three. But will have to come to terms with the job and give it a go unless some magic information comes up in the FSM. Have read through this section a couple of times now but nothing has really come to mind. Time to do some exploratory surgery on the column. :confused:

I'd find the easiest to run with like the horn. Hopefully the same fix will get the others working too.
12V at horn when pressed? NO?
Follow the yellow brick road ;)

[captcorvette]

Did the grounding points today. The one on the chassis rail near the horn under the right headlight. Cleaned with emery cloth and elbow grease. Then the conductive grease, Tightened and then moved on to the grounding points under the battery. All those also completed today.

No change. Steering wheel puller is now cleaned up and ready to go----as soon as my intestinal fortitude builds up a bit. And patience reservoir gets full. But not gonna push my luck more on a Friday the 13th..

OK so perhaps I am a little supersillysticious!