After-market alarm question

[AustinJohn]

As I posted in another thread, Hans and I struck a deal and I am planning to fly out in a month with my 13 year old grandson, Henry, to drive the car back to Austin. And just as we originally planned, we'll drive old Route 66 north from Needles, taking in Oatman, Kingman and Seligman before joining I-40 for the 45 miles to Williams. In Williams we have a Grand Canyon Railway package (hotel, meals, train to/from the Canyon and bus tour), see friends of mine in New Mexico, have an evening in Amarillo and a second in Arkansas before meeting Henry's mother and younger (envious!) brother in Little Rock. I'm sure excited and Henry seems to be as well.

I have a question and would appreciate everyone's opinions. The car doesn't have an after-market alarm and I've given thought to getting one although I've never had one on any other car I've owned. One system I've looked at is the Ravelco (http://nohotwire.com/product/about-ravelco/) and I would appreciate any thoughts anyone might have on that, any other system or none at all.

Many thanks!

John

[Kevin]

never seen an after market alarm system that wasn't more trouble then it's worth. Hell some of us can't get the car to start when we have the keys. you'll be fine, I don't think there's much of a market for "shitty old c4's". which is what most people see these as

[scottfab]

I bought and put in the Mid America Keyless Entry Alarm #19148.
Since I installed in in 1999 I've had zero problems.
It opens the hatch too :)

[GOLDCYLON]

I retained the factory alarm and had a keyless entry system from viper installed. Did this on my MY90 as well added the rear hatch release feature as well. zero issues.

[Socalerv]

never seen an after market alarm system that wasn't more trouble then it's worth. Hell some of us can't get the car to start when we have the keys. you'll be fine, I don't think there's much of a market for "shitty old c4's". which is what most people see these as

I am with you. I have a cutoff system that will kill the engine if the corect protocol is not followed.

It is tied into the cruise control that scares the blue blazes out of me. If I knew how to reverse I would.

[4-cam]

I'm running a viper, the PO had installed. No problems to date and it has key-less entry

[GOLDCYLON]

I'm running a viper, the PO had installed. No problems to date and it has key-less entry

Yep way better than PKE !!!!

[Z51JEFF]

Not a thing wrong with the stock setup,cant steal the car providing the system works.

[Kevin]

Not a thing wrong with the stock setup,cant steal the car providing the system works.

sure you can, but it's just as easy with an after market system too. if someone wants it they're gona get it

[GOLDCYLON]

sure you can, but it's just as easy with an after market system too. if someone wants it they're gona get it

Concur. If a skilled thief wants it its gone. Only thing that keeps a thief away is being visible at the time of the crime and anything that causes them to have to spend more time. Basically anything that increases their chance of getting caught.

[Socalerv]

Not a thing wrong with the stock setup,cant steal the car providing the system works.


Since mine has been modified would you please explain the stock security system and how it works?

[mike100]

Since mine has been modified would you please explain the stock security system and how it works?

basically if you close the door after power-locking it to the closed position, the alarm is active and the security light will blink on the dash for a short time.

The alarm goes off if you open the door- either by smashing the window and opening the door, or if you locked a passenger inside and they exit before you unlock the door. The doors can be unlocked manually with the key, or by the interior buttons.

The horn honks, and presumably, the ignition is disabled.

I don't know exactly all the nuances, but if the passenger side door doesn't lock 100 percent from a sticky lock mechanism, or if somebody manually does the pass side from inside- the alarm might still go off. For sure the driver side lock position is monitored by the alarm.

maybe the BCM monitors lock status, but with the aging door hardware, you might only get 80% lock movement to trigger a falsed lock position. I had to fix my passenger door lock on mine.

[Z51JEFF]

sure you can, but it's just as easy with an after market system too. if someone wants it they're gona get it

Will they be able to drive it away?

[GOLDCYLON]

Will they be able to drive it away?


In a matter of of minutes. All they need to do is break your lock cylinder and carry one of their own. use an inline spliter with the VATS key that they brought stored and drive away. Its the yellow or orange wire that feeds the VATS discriminator box. It isnt pretty but your car will be gone in less than 5 minutes.

[AustinJohn]

basically if you close the door after power-locking it to the closed position, the alarm is active and the security light will blink on the dash for a short time.

The alarm goes off if you open the door- either by smashing the window and opening the door, or if you locked a passenger inside and they exit before you unlock the door. The doors can be unlocked manually with the key, or by the interior buttons.

The horn honks, and presumably, the ignition is disabled.

I don't know exactly all the nuances, but if the passenger side door doesn't lock 100 percent from a sticky lock mechanism, or if somebody manually does the pass side from inside- the alarm might still go off. For sure the driver side lock position is monitored by the alarm.

maybe the BCM monitors lock status, but with the aging door hardware, you might only get 80% lock movement to trigger a falsed lock position. I had to fix my passenger door lock on mine.

What I've always found confusing is that '86-'96 C4's had two separate what I would consider security systems. The first was the "Universal Theft Deterrent System" which Mike has described.

The second was the infamous "Personal Automotive Security System" (known at various times as "VATS', "PassKey 1" and "PASSKey2") which GM introduced in the '86 Corvette because the GM locking steering columns could be defeated very easily with brute force. The PASSKey system uses an embedded resistor pellet in the ignition key and if the wrong key is used (and sometimes for a variety of other maddening reasons) prevents starting of the engine by disabling the starter for 2-4 minutes before allowing another attempt. Jumpering the starter won't help because the control module disables the ECM's injector drivers as a second line of defense.

But as others have said, neither of these alone, or both together prevents a determined thief.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts!

John

[scottfab]

What I've always found confusing is that '86-'96 C4's had two separate what I would consider security systems. The first was the "Universal Theft Deterrent System" which Mike has described.

The second was the infamous "Personal Automotive Security System" (known at various times as "VATS', "PassKey 1" and "PASSKey2") which GM introduced in the '86 Corvette because the GM locking steering columns could be defeated very easily with brute force. The PASSKey system uses an embedded resistor pellet in the ignition key and if the wrong key is used (and sometimes for a variety of other maddening reasons) prevents starting of the engine by disabling the starter for 2-4 minutes before allowing another attempt. Jumpering the starter won't help because the control module disables the ECM's injector drivers as a second line of defense.

But as others have said, neither of these alone, or both together prevents a determined thief.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts!

John

You have it right. No breaking the steering lock or having a splitter for the VATs will be able to guess which one of 15 key codes (resistance) you have. With the built in delay there is a deterrent.
Also it was mentioned that the stock "alarm" goes off. Not true with early MYs. No alarm. That's one reason I installed an after market. It's more of a theft of contents deterrent than for auto theft. However it serves a bit there too since it's much harder for a thief to guess what system you have. At minimum there will be noise that may or may not be ignored by the by-standers.
Best deterrent overall is to keep an eye on it or pay a few $ to have someone call you on your cell if anyone touches the car.

[GOLDCYLON]

You have it right. No breaking the steering lock or having a splitter for the VATs will be able to guess which one of 15 key codes (resistance) you have.

A complete falsehood. A plug in made to order spilter is available all day every day on Ebay. It has a male connection on one end and a female on the other. Once plugged in provided wiht the resistance OHM you choose with the lock cylinder you brought with you. Its thats easy and Ive done it.

[Kevin]

Will they be able to drive it away?

no, it will take a tow truck.

[Kevin]

You have it right. No breaking the steering lock or having a splitter for the VATs will be able to guess which one of 15 key codes (resistance) you have. With the built in delay there is a deterrent.
Also it was mentioned that the stock "alarm" goes off. Not true with early MYs. No alarm. That's one reason I installed an after market. It's more of a theft of contents deterrent than for auto theft. However it serves a bit there too since it's much harder for a thief to guess what system you have. At minimum there will be noise that may or may not be ignored by the by-standers.
Best deterrent overall is to keep an eye on it or pay a few $ to have someone call you on your cell if anyone touches the car.

i can assure you the 90's have an alarm. I've set it off a few times squeezing into the car after some dumbass parked too close to me. don't ask me how, I don't know how

[Socalerv]

I am with you. I have a cutoff system that will kill the engine if the corect protocol is not followed.

It is tied into the cruise control that scares the blue blazes out of me. If I knew how to reverse I would.


Has anyone seen this type of application before? I want to remove it as if the cruise control on or set button fails I can start the car but it dies in a miinute or so. I would be unable to bypass the kill switch.

[Z51JEFF]

Not true with early MYs. No alarm. That's one reason I installed an aft.

Exactly what years are you referring too?84-96 had the factory alarm,just had improvements over the years.

[Z51JEFF]

no, it will take a tow truck.

My point exactly but it seems it can be drivin away with some work.

[Kevin]

My point exactly but it seems it can be drivin away with some work.

if they want it that badly, they're bringing a tow truck.

[scottfab]

Exactly what years are you referring too?84-96 had the factory alarm,just had improvements over the years.

I completely forgot why I installed the aftermarket alarm. It was to have a remote entry. Duh... there is a factory alarm. In fact mine has gone off before when engaging the door too early after pushing the remote button.
My bad.

[scottfab]

A complete falsehood. A plug in made to order spilter is available all day every day on Ebay. It has a male connection on one end and a female on the other. Once plugged in provided wiht the resistance OHM you choose with the lock cylinder you brought with you. Its thats easy and Ive done it.

No actually it's true. Like I said. No amount of splitter will be able to guess the right resister of 15 values you have. There is a 4min wait time between each guess. That delay on each try is quite a long time to sit in the car. On the other hand you could remove each piece of the car one at a time if you have that much time to sit with the car. Eventually you'll get the whole car.

Again No splitter box can be plugged in and drive off with you're car. There be some trial and error involved and some nervous wait time.