LT5 swap into 89MY L98?

[widebodyzr-1]

whats required to make work? i have engine w/harness and will be converting my ZF to longer shaft.

can my existing electronics (dash, CCM) be made to work?

any response appreciated. thanks.

btw - long ago i had the ZR-1 wide body installed; me and Bill B. *might* be the only 2 to have done this. maybe not...

[ZZZZZR1]

There is a gentleman named Leon who has done it to 2 narrow body corvettes (1992 coupe and 1995 convertible)

You need to modify the engine harness. I can pass along his info if you are interested

His next project is a 1993 ruby convertible LT5

:cheers:

David

[widebodyzr-1]

appreciate the response, thanks. yes, please PM me the contact info.

what would be different between Leon's conversions and myself is that i have the older style dash/wiring harness. would my harness require modification as well? i thought i saw someplace recently where an actual 89 ZR-1 prototype dash was for sale. i'd consider installing that, if i could find such a piece.

What about my CCM? anybody have any thoughts?

[ZZZZZR1]

An 89 prototype dash would be very pricey. (most prototype stuff is)

http://www.zr1.net/forum/member.php?u=2656

Here is his email

estepleon@hotmail.com


He is a class guy and can custom make your wiring harness (like he did for 2 others)

:cheers:

David

[widebodyzr-1]

thanks a bunch; i'll reach out to him.

looking at this ECM schematic, it's not clear to me how the CCM comes into play:

http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q570/eddiedlopez/69_90dia_page8_image1.jpg

need to keep digging...

[-=Jeff=-]

Your 89 does not have a CCM

[widebodyzr-1]

i must be confusing acronyms then...

[-=Jeff=-]

i must be confusing acronyms then...
CCM is the body computer.. it controls the dash ( basically)

[widebodyzr-1]

ok, so really basic question.

is the CCM located under under the passenger dash on the ZR-1? where the non-ZR-1 vettes have the ECM?

thanks.

[-=Jeff=-]

ok, so really basic question.

is the CCM located under under the passenger dash on the ZR-1? where the non-ZR-1 vettes have the ECM?

thanks.

NO..

Now excluding prototypes etc for a moment and concentrate on production only..

84-89 Corvettes had the ECM behind the 'bread loaf' on the passenger side of the dash. They also did not have a separate CCM, all the fuel calculations etc were handled by the LCD Cluster itself

90-96 (ALL: non-ZR-1 and ZR-1 90-95) had an ECM and a CCM.
the ECM is located above the battery. the CCM is buried behind the Radio in the dash.. the CCM controlled the LCD on the cluster. so any function of that LCD on 90-96 was handled by the ECM.

If you install a LT5 (best to go with production parts) I would suggest a 1990 or 1991. you would need to try to interface the engine harness with the 89 wiring going into the car at the driver-side bulkhead and passenger side pass-thru. You will also need to add the second fuel pump and wiring for the key if you choose to have full power as an option

[widebodyzr-1]

thank you Jeff, starting to make sense now.

eddie

[mike100]

Since you have an earlier car without the CCM or stability control, it might be a lot easier to do an LSx conversion. Bill B (aka the ZF doc) did an LS1 on his 89 and he got the Atari dash working in tandem with the new engine ECM. I suspect the car still uses the orig ecm to piggy-back the speed signal and tach line to the gauges, but either way, having a pre-92 car makes for an easier installation.

I would do the LS3 over an LT5 in a lightweight coupe chassis for many reasons.

[widebodyzr-1]

i considered it, but something special about a 4 cam/32 valve V-8. besides, already picked up a 90MY engine. i'm committed now, just need to figure out how i'm going to get dash to work.

option 1) graft LT5 ECM into existing harness/dash (need Leon's help here)
option 2) use 89MY 8K dash (CCM on prototypes? require prototype dash harness?)
option 3) use CCM w/90MY dash (not certain what other parts would be required)

btw - my 89 has FX3, i ordered it w/every option sans tpms.

[-=Jeff=-]

i considered it, but something special about a 4 cam/32 valve V-8. besides, already picked up a 90MY engine. i'm committed now, just need to figure out how i'm going to get dash to work.

option 1) graft LT5 ECM into existing harness/dash (need Leon's help here)
option 2) use 89MY 8K dash (CCM on prototypes? require prototype dash harness?)
option 3) use CCM w/90MY dash (not certain what other parts would be required)

btw - my 89 has FX3, i ordered it w/every option sans tpms.

you DON'T need the CCM AT ALL

I see you are still a bit confused..

the CCM is ONLY for the 90-newer style dash, it is not needed in your 89 at all, whether you have a L98 or LT5 or LSx

you need to compare the engine harness connectors at the firewall. get them to mate..

[widebodyzr-1]

i wasn't certain if the 89 prototype dash switched to CCM.

i'm now feeling option 3 might be best option, depending how much i can source a clean and complete dash for.

[-=Jeff=-]

If seems to me you are hung up on having a CCM.. Why?

I think Option 1 is the best solution.. I did the 90-91 dash in an 89 it is not as simple as it may seem

[Corvettes White]

The ’89 Z’s used the same computer as the ‘90’s mounted in the engine compartment. I believe that the electronics in the Atari dash were replaced by the CCM in ‘90. None of the references I have show a second computer in an ‘89 Z.

If you are dead serious on doing this, give me a call, I have thought most of the project through. Make sure you do not mix and match parts too much. And expect to spend some coin depending on how far you are going to take this.

George

[widebodyzr-1]

If seems to me you are hung up on having a CCM.. Why?

I think Option 1 is the best solution.. I did the 90-91 dash in an 89 it is not as simple as it may seem

ultimately, looking for least painful (time and $$$) route to getting dash/electronics working. i just need to slow down and think this one through.

[widebodyzr-1]

The ’89 Z’s used the same computer as the ‘90’s mounted in the engine compartment. I believe that the electronics in the Atari dash were replaced by the CCM in ‘90. None of the references I have show a second computer in an ‘89 Z.

If you are dead serious on doing this, give me a call, I have thought most of the project through. Make sure you do not mix and match parts too much. And expect to spend some coin depending on how far you are going to take this.

George

thanks George, i will be calling you this week.

and yes, dead serious on swapping LT5 into my 89. i realize the easy route is to pick up a real Z... but there's a certain sentiment to 22 year old low-mileage vette ordered from the factory.

[VetteVet]

Just some thoughts based on what I know (and some of what I think I know). I'm not putting this out as gospel, just the way that I understand things to work.

As far as I know, the only dash info affected would be the fuel economy information and possibly the tach. The oil pressure, coolant temp, oil temp, fuel level, etc. should be OK since they have dedicated senders feeding the dash directly.

The tach could be a problem because the 89 gets it's tach signal from the ignition primary circuit via a tach filter. The ZR-1 tach signal is a 5 volt TTL level signal generated by the Ignition Control Module. If the 89 dash will trigger from the TTL signal, you should be OK.

The digital dash gets information for fuel economy, range, etc. calculations from the ALDL data that the ECM is broadcasting. There are different datastreams used, depending on year, model and ECM. This will lead to problems.

For example, if the dash is looking for byte 6 in the 89 datastream, the same byte in the 90 ZR-1 ECM datastream will more than likely not be the correct piece of information that the dash needs. Thus the info displayed by the dash will be erroneous.

With that being said, the code that the 90 ZR-1 is running can be modified to broadcast a compatible datastream. The downside to this is that the modified datastream will now cause problems with diagnostics when a scan tool is hooked up.

I don't think any of this is insurmountable, just pointing out some of the problems that you could possibly run into.

Jep

[Corvettes White]

If you want, If you have the aility, If it would even make a difference in response to the above comment. The removable chip that was used in 1989 Z's, I have two versions that you may copy if you wish.

[RHanselman]

the CCM controlled the LCD on the cluster. so any function of that LCD on 90-96 was handled by the ECM.

I was following until the above... Looks like you are saying in the first sentence that the CCM controls the LCD and then in the second you are saying the LCD is handled (controlled) by the ECM??

What am I missing?

[-=Jeff=-]

I was following until the above... Looks like you are saying in the first sentence that the CCM controls the LCD and then in the second you are saying the LCD is handled (controlled) by the ECM??

What am I missing? you caught a typo.. ( thanks)

it should read:

the CCM controlled the LCD on the cluster. so any function of that LCD on 90-96 was handled by the CCM Not the ECM

[RHanselman]

I talked with bill a few months back and he said he used the new computer and just pinned out the connectors to the right outputs. He lost his fuel computations and that was it...

[-=Jeff=-]

I talked with bill a few months back and he said he used the new computer and just pinned out the connectors to the right outputs. He lost his fuel computations and that was it...

Yep that is expected.. all else will work

[RHanselman]

you caught a typo.. ( thanks)

it should read:

the CCM controlled the LCD on the cluster. so any function of that LCD on 90-96 was handled by the CCM Not the ECM

So the ECM feeds parts of the CCM and the CCM controls the LCD?

[-=Jeff=-]

So the ECM feeds parts of the CCM and the CCM controls the LCD?

Yes..

The CCM gets data from the ECM for the sensor display on the LCD panel (92-95). The fuel gauge also goes directly to the CCM then to the LCD

in the 89, I think he could use the 90 ECM and not have too many issues.. the only thing that would not work would be Fuel mileage, but I know that the code for the Instant fuel etc can be modded in the 1990 BIN to work with the older dash, I know someone who has done it, so if he got the LT5 running int he 89 and everything else functioning then the BIN could be changed to show the fuel calcs as well

[phrogs]

I have 90 Dash with harness and CCM still installed, you would need to track down the Dash cluster but I have the dash cover, the skeleton with harness, All the vents, the Info center and almost all the ZR-1 specific wiring harnesses except an engine harness

I have the body harness the headlight harness all of it.

It's kinda what you want to do and if you really want the 89 dash.
Since you can bypass the power key with the chip its not like you have to incorporate the valet key.

[XfireZ51]

thanks George, i will be calling you this week.

and yes, dead serious on swapping LT5 into my 89. i realize the easy route is to pick up a real Z... but there's a certain sentiment to 22 year old low-mileage vette ordered from the factory.

I owned my 84 for 24 years. For sometime, I strongly considered installing an LSx motor in it. I went ahead and bought a ZR-1. Sentiment went out the window. I really don't think about the 84 much.

[Pete]

I think with all the money and labor you'll put into it you can buy a complete ZR-1 the prices of ZR-1's in the gutter today.

If you decide to do it i have a complete A/C parts for ZR-1/LT5

Pete

[Blue Flame Restorations]

I've got a perfectly good project 90 ZR-1 for you with no engine that needs your LT5.

[widebodyzr-1]

thanks for all the posts on this thread guys. i really appreciate the knowledge share you all are providing this outsider (no ZR-1 in my stable).

i'll be tackling installing my 90 LT5 into my 89 and making the existing dash work. this is a long term project, so i have no expectations going in to this; i'll work issues as they come up.

first up is p&p heads and top end. also weighing the cost of 368 or 415 upgrades.