B&B Fusion: First Look

[Locobob]

Hi everyone, sorry I've pretty much been MIA here for a while.
To make up for my lack of participation I give you the new.... B&B Fusion Bi-Modal Exhaust.... tada!
This isn't mine, it will be going on Steve Mohr's 91 in the near future but feel free to ask questions and I will try to answer what I can. The exhaust as shipped did not include instructions so at this point some of the wiring and vacuum routing is subject to conjecture.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P2040017.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P2040015.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P2040013.jpg

[Locobob]

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P2040007.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P2040006.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P2040005.jpg

[Pete]

Yeah,where the he!! you been.

Exhaust looks nice very nice.

Just a couple a questions how in the he!! did you get B&B to sell/make you an X-pipe,did you have to ask them in a really nice way?

This question i don't and i do wanna ask,i'm scared of the answer. How much? $$$

Pete

[USAFPILOT]

they gave me an pipe along with my cutback not too long ago. Same pipe. Same cutback minus the bimodal stuff.

[Locobob]

Yeah,where the he!! you been.

Exhaust looks nice very nice.

Just a couple a questions how in the he!! did you get B&B to sell/make you an X-pipe,did you have to ask them in a really nice way?

This question i don't and i do wanna ask,i'm scared of the answer. How much? $$$

Pete

The X-pipe came as part of the complete system, I'll have to ask Steve if they gave him the option of a resonator or not.
$$$$? Not sure what the retail will be, Steve got a deal on this in exchange for being somewhat of a beta-tester. This will hopefully involve a before and after dyno test.

[RICKYRJ1]

Well at least you came back with a killer post :dancing You can't go MIA again after the B&B taste. Welcome back :cheers:

[-=Jeff=-]

Very cool.. looks like it is a remote controlled system ( with Key FOBs)

Could we get a couple pictures of the vacuum bulb and controls up close, I am curious to see how they suggest hooking up the vacuum.

[PhillipsLT5]

I spoke to B&B on Steves request, offered them my car to mock up, but they never took me up on my offer
If you have any ?, contact them(Billy)

[GOLDCYLON]

Hey Bob where the Hell have you been??? Welcome back. I think that setup is very simular to Dennis (AtomicZs) setup. Looks pretty cool.

Is your car up and running/ Last time I saw it you were still working on it? GC :cheers:

[GOLDCYLON]

I spoke to B&B on Steves request, offered them my car to mock up, but they never took me up on my offer
If you have any ?, contact them(Billy)


That sucks Phillip. Being local you would have thought

[ScottZ95ZR1]

I spoke with Mike at B&B two days ago and he mentioned that he still needed to make time to get a car in the shop for final mock up to prepare the system installation documentation.

I got the impression that was something that might have been delayed due to conflicting priorities, but it seemed to be on his short-term scope. Maybe they will still need your help, Phillip.

He did say they had already shipped a couple units, and I'm very glad Bob will be involved in Steve's install to give us his feedback.

Thanks for the post and pics Bob !

[rhipsher]

I'm curious also to see the results. I like the way it looks. Simple. Not a bunch of different exhaust pieces from different mfg's. All from just one.

[XfireZ51]

Wonder if they'll sell the electronics separately for those of us that already have the flapper valves installed??

[VetteMed]

Some nice looking hardware there.

[LT5-1935]

I recieved my set a couple of weeks ago. I talked to Mike @ the SEMA show about these
http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/gbraml/photo18.jpg?t=1328817428
http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/gbraml/DSC00230.jpg

[ScottZ95ZR1]

Wonder if they'll sell the electronics separately for those of us that already have the flapper valves installed??

This company sells retrofit kits and controllers separately: http://www.shop.sunsetorangecreations.com/main.sc

[USAFPILOT]

sure looks good with all the pipes polished...I could never keep mine that way if I had purchased them polished though.

[FU]

This question i don't and i do wanna ask,i'm scared of the answer. How much? $$$

Pete

What he said........I'm scared to ask the price. Take a good guess at $ 2300.

[RHanselman]

Roberts back!

Now let's keep on track... Excuse the pun...

[Locobob]

Very cool.. looks like it is a remote controlled system ( with Key FOBs)

Could we get a couple pictures of the vacuum bulb and controls up close, I am curious to see how they suggest hooking up the vacuum.

Pretty sure the key fob just enables and disables the valve system.... so if it is disabled the valve stays closed no matter what. Once it is enabled a drop in manifold vacuum opens the valves - note in the pics they are open in the absence of vacuum. The large vacuum hose that comes back from the engine manifold plugs into the bulb which is connected to the switch.... the hose comes out of the other side of the switch and tees heading to the actuators. Hope that makes sense....

[Locobob]

Hey Bob where the Hell have you been??? Welcome back. I think that setup is very simular to Dennis (AtomicZs) setup. Looks pretty cool.

Is your car up and running/ Last time I saw it you were still working on it? GC :cheers:

Sadly it looks about the same as it did two years ago.... about ready to just throw all the pieces in a truck and ship it off to Illinois for Marc to play with.... I just can't seem to find the time and energy to make any headway.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Robert,

Aloha and its been awhile.......so glad to hear all is well and thanks for sharing. That looks great and I love those tips on that system too. Keep in touch and don't be a stranger. :cheers:

Craig

[-=Jeff=-]

Pretty sure the key fob just enables and disables the valve system.... so if it is disabled the valve stays closed no matter what. Once it is enabled a drop in manifold vacuum opens the valves - note in the pics they are open in the absence of vacuum. The large vacuum hose that comes back from the engine manifold plugs into the bulb which is connected to the switch.... the hose comes out of the other side of the switch and tees heading to the actuators. Hope that makes sense....
yes it does thanks

[sammy]

2300 is way to rich for my blood for an exhaust system . it does look very nice though

[RICKYRJ1]

2300 is way to rich for my blood for an exhaust system . it does look very nice though


I'm with Sammy, I'm out of the game before it even started. Guess I will have to wait for the OBX version to be made, ;)

[rhipsher]

Dom! Do the exhaust cut outs bypass the cats?

[Pete]

Rick,the exhaust is all business.
No CATS.
Headers,full 3"pipes,X-pipe & mufflers w/dual outlet tips and one of them has the flapper.

Pete

[Locobob]

Helped Steve get the new fusion exhaust bolted up today. We managed to get in hung but it still needs a little tweaking to get the fit right. Steve had to trim the muffler hangers as they wouldn't clear the tail pipes. The stock hangers leave more gap than we'd like to see between the tail pipes and the rear fascia. They either need further modification or we are going to have to fab up some L brackets with the right length. Here are a few pics. Fusion next to the stock exhaust. Check out how restrictive the stock exhaust is at the resonator.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P3040018.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P3040020.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P3040019.jpg

[Locobob]

More tips: The slightly shorter end of the X-Pipe is the front, fits better that way. We followed the fuel lines with both the vacuum and wiring - worked out pretty well.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P3050004.jpg

The vacuum reservoir and switch plate fits nicely behind the license plate but could also be mounted in the left rear bumper (kinda like the charcoal canister at the right rear).
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P3070008.jpg

Engine vacuum is obtained by teeing off the brake reservoir.
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/P3070011.jpg

[Locobob]

And here it is in action

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/th_P3070012.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/?action=view&current=P3070012.mp4)

[Paul Workman]

And here it is in action

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/th_P3070012.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/?action=view&current=P3070012.mp4)

:thumbsup:

Music....PURE MUSIC!

P.

[Dmod81]

That exhaust looks and sounds great!

I've got a question...

I have a Gen 1 B&B exhaust with a resonator and SW headers and while it sounds great, at highway speeds the resonance can be unbearable at times. Does anyone think that if I could get just the fusion mufflers and control kit that it would tame the resonance a bit?

[XfireZ51]

I don't think I would T off the brake booster line. It concerns me if for whatever reason I were to lose vacuum or diminish vacuum available for the booster.

[Paul Workman]

I don't think I would T off the brake booster line. It concerns me if for whatever reason I were to lose vacuum or diminish vacuum available for the booster.

I doan theek zo...

1) The vacuum booster has a check valve in it to retain vacuum during WOT periods. (We used to test the check valve on a new booster by shutting off the motor and then pressing on the brakes to see if the booster was still charged. The boosters often hold vacuum quite a while.)
2) Zero vacuum at WOT is what allows the actuators to "relax" and a spring pulls the plates open.
3) Under normal driving, if there was a leak to the extent it would affect the booster's ability to charge, the idle would be affected - big time.
4) The "T" is so close to the plenum that the flappers may as well be attached to a dedicated port on the plenum.

Or...Am I missing something??

P.

[XfireZ51]

With all the other ports available, the brake booster would not be on the top of my list, but then that's my preference.

[cvette98pacecar]

That exhaust looks and sounds great!

I've got a question...

I have a Gen 1 B&B exhaust with a resonator and SW headers and while it sounds great, at highway speeds the resonance can be unbearable at times. Does anyone think that if I could get just the fusion mufflers and control kit that it would tame the resonance a bit?

D:cheers::cheers::cheers:
Im with you. I need just the mufflers and piping.

[XfireZ51]

D:cheers::cheers::cheers:
Im with you. I need just the mufflers and piping.

Good luck getting "just the mufflers" from Billy Boat!

[Locobob]

I was initially a little iffy on grabbing the vacuum from the brake booster fitting but after thinking it through and getting a few expert opinions I was good with it. It has worked just fine, no perceivable effect on braking performance.

Before and after dyno results coming soon :cheers:

[KGV]

Would it be possible to switch the mufflers to the opposite sides so that the actuator is on the inside? It looks like if the tire picked up stones, they could impact the actuator.


Ken

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/th_P3070012.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/?action=view&current=P3070012.mp4)[/QUOTE]

[XfireZ51]

Ken,

Al, Pete, and I had same conversation about moving actuator inboard but there's no room to do that. And we had the option of doing that because Al individually welded the Z06 tips with the DynoMax muffs. That's where they are positioned on the Z06 as well.




Would it be possible to switch the mufflers to the opposite sides so that the actuator is on the inside? It looks like if the tire picked up stones, they could impact actuator.


Ken

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/th_P3070012.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/?action=view&current=P3070012.mp4)[/QUOTE]

[Locobob]

It would be nice if B&B would rotate the actuator upward a bit, that would decrease its exposure to debris and make it less visible from the rear. There is room to do this.

[Locobob]

Would it be possible to switch the mufflers to the opposite sides so that the actuator is on the inside? It looks like if the tire picked up stones, they could impact the actuator.


Ken

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/th_P3070012.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/?action=view&current=P3070012.mp4)[/QUOTE]

Anything is possible.... but switching sides with the muffler assemblies would be a major undertaking. You'd have to cut off the pipes that are welded to the backs of the mufflers and then splice them back together on the other side - then try to line everything up again. It would be a whole lot easier to just make a little debris shield.

[PhillipsLT5]

If B&B had taken me up on my offer to use my car to fab this up, they may have come up with a better set up, They also could of looked at Marc's or the FBI's set up for ideas

[cvette98pacecar]

If B&B had taken me up on my offer to use my car to fab this up, they may have come up with a better set up, They also could of looked at Marc's or the FBI's set up for ideas

I just saw Paul car and I didn't see any type of exhaust baffle. But I wasnt looking either.

[tf95ZR1]

It seems to be hit and miss with B&B.
First time I called to order a 3" X pipe they said no,
have to buy entire system and/or trade in the resonator.
Next call, I got my B&B X pipe. Not cheap....

[Locobob]

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/th_P1910002.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/locobob68/ZR-1/?action=view&current=P1910002.mp4)

Well todays dyno session didn't go to well. Peak HP at 335 was almost identical to the baseline runs and below peak the car was down on power throughout the rpm range. The car is stock except for the cat back. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the exhaust as I've never seen a Z lose low or mid range due to big pipes. After the fact Steve realized he had left the defogger on... which turns the A/C compressor. I'm not sure if that could be it or not. I know the ecm automatically disengages the A/C under either WOT or at a certain RPM but I don't recall the details... anyone remember how that works?

[XfireZ51]

Robert,

A/C is off at 70% TPS and/or 5000rpm. So at a WOT run A/C would be a non issue for Peak Power.

[Locobob]

Robert,

A/C is off at 70% TPS and/or 5000rpm. So at a WOT run A/C would be a non issue for Peak Power.

Yeah that's what I thought..... wonder if he just got some lousy gas or something. Same dyno as before and atmospherics were really close. Hmmmm

[tf95ZR1]

Key on?

:willy:

I know, wouldn't be that high
without secondaries.

[XfireZ51]

Fro the vid it sounds like its taking a while to get up there.

[Locobob]

Key on?

:willy:

I know, wouldn't be that high
without secondaries.

Ted, Ted, Ted.... sigh :mrgreen:

[Kevin]

It would be nice if B&B would rotate the actuator upward a bit, that would decrease its exposure to debris and make it less visible from the rear. There is room to do this.

it does look like it's going to take a lot of burnt rubber

[Locobob]

Fro the vid it sounds like its taking a while to get up there.

I was thinking the same thing while filming..... but we get a little jaded by all the modded rides :mrgreen:

[GOLDCYLON]

Non modded thats pretty close to stock RWHP

[XfireZ51]

I was thinking the same thing while filming..... but we get a little jaded by all the modded rides :mrgreen:

Robert,

What did the AFR curve look like? IS it possible the exhaust caused the
mixture to lean out somewhat?

[rhipsher]

That's a bummer. I was expecting at least some kind of gain.

[Paul Workman]

That's a bummer. I was expecting at least some kind of gain.

Don't give up! I'm sure it will work. Why? That B&B system, IMO, is a friggin highjacking of results well established by independant experimenters that did the real experimentation. This (photo) is 3 years old; a pattern of a 3" system throughout that was largely pioneered, installed and proven to work by Bob G and Al and Pete over 4 years ago. See any resemblance??? And, the afore mentioned FBI guys have sported the flappers for at least a year now.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/tech%20files/StainlessWorks2001Large.jpg

We KNOW it makes POWER! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFNFOhGGlR4) <link

So, I've no doubt Locobob's current "B&B" system will work; it appears (to me) to be amazingly close to the local boy's systems, but I'll bet they aren't getting any "royalties" from B&B sales...not even a new sheepie for Petes coral, let alone a chance to buy the muffs with cutouts as a separate item. I'm just sayin, for that it makes me a little :mad: with B&B.

I recon Locobob will find the power, once the gremlin is routed out.:cheers:

P.

[Locobob]

Robert,

What did the AFR curve look like? IS it possible the exhaust caused the
mixture to lean out somewhat?

A/F looked fine, had kind of an extended tip in lean out but by 4000rpm it was solidly in the 12.5 range and stayed there.

[ScottZ95ZR1]

I have a question for the many of you here smarter than I am...

I've installed just the fusion exhaust but haven't decided where I want to mount the vacuum reservoir and switch plate.

I think I would like to put it forward left in the engine compartment where the AIR pump once was - plenty of space there.

But does it makes sense to have the reservoir so far from the actuators.... or would it really not matter with vacuum?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated!

[VetteMed]

As long as your vacuum tubing is stiff enough so as not to collapse, and large enough diameter to provide the "volume" of vacuum needed to operate the actuator(s), the length of the tubing isn't really much of an issue. Of course, I am no engineer -- but in my mind at least, it's like choosing the size of wiring. The length isn't much of an issue as long as the gauge is large enough.

[XfireZ51]

A/F looked fine, had kind of an extended tip in lean out but by 4000rpm it was solidly in the 12.5 range and stayed there.

Bob,

When I get to the dyno in early June we'll find out if the DynoMaxs' had any effect on AFR with my car. The SW Xpipe did lean things out a bit
after replacing the MFlow resonator with it. AFR went from about 13 up to 13.4. Bringing AFR back down gained about 15hp. No gain in bumping timing past 29d.

[ScottZ95ZR1]

As long as your vacuum tubing is stiff enough so as not to collapse, and large enough diameter to provide the "volume" of vacuum needed to operate the actuator(s), the length of the tubing isn't really much of an issue. Of course, I am no engineer -- but in my mind at least, it's like choosing the size of wiring. The length isn't much of an issue as long as the gauge is large enough.

Thank you Andrew!

[Paul Workman]

It seems to be hit and miss with B&B.
First time I called to order a 3" X pipe they said no,
have to buy entire system and/or trade in the resonator.
Next call, I got my B&B X pipe. Not cheap....

The SW X pipe to me was $278 a couple years ago. The B&B is essentially the same. How much for their X??

P.

[Pete]

Bob,

When I get to the dyno in early June we'll find out if the DynoMaxs' had any effect on AFR with my car. The SW Xpipe did lean things out a bit
after replacing the MFlow resonator with it. AFR went from about 13 up to 13.4. Bringing AFR back down gained about 15hp. No gain in bumping timing past 29d.

Wait till June WTF.
I would say find another Dyno.

Pete

[ScottZ95ZR1]

The SW X pipe to me was $278 a couple years ago. The B&B is essentially the same. How much for their X??

P.

I bought one from B&B in 2010 for $300

[XfireZ51]

Wait till June WTF.
I would say find another Dyno.

Pete

Pete,

Just trying to keep apples to apples.

[Locobob]

I have a question for the many of you here smarter than I am...

I've installed just the fusion exhaust but haven't decided where I want to mount the vacuum reservoir and switch plate.

I think I would like to put it forward left in the engine compartment where the AIR pump once was - plenty of space there.

But does it makes sense to have the reservoir so far from the actuators.... or would it really not matter with vacuum?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated!

There is space to mount the plate behind the rear license plate and also inside the left rear fender. Steve put his behind the rear plate and it worked out rather well. I can't really see the point in going to the front of the car and then all the way to the back.

[GOLDCYLON]

It would be nice if B&B would rotate the actuator upward a bit, that would decrease its exposure to debris and make it less visible from the rear. There is room to do this.


Concur thats the only thing I dislike about this mod. Stone city

[emmvette]

Digging up this old thread. I'm installing this on my car and am not getting a 12V output from the little black box. I verified there is 12V on the input (red) wire with the ignition on; and the black wire is grounded. I'm wondering if the little box is just bad. I can't think of a way to test it.

Also, wondering how your exhausts are holding up. Are the valves and electronics still functioning well?