Big Power Zs

[LGAFF]

Seems the Z was a big shooter at the Silver State Classic in the 90s......Kim Baker ran a 600-800hp 93 Z several times averaging 179-183MPH. There was even an attempt to build a solid lifter LT-5, that could rev to 9-10k with cams to run in that range....but it croaked on the dyno.(chain failure)

None of these were big ci...I think one was a 368

Wonder what they did to hit these #s, and if the cars would not be streetable due to the cam profiles?

I think there are a lot of untapped secrets about the LT-5...some of these guys that did experimental stuff for Chevrolet did some amazing work.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

I bet if someone had backing from GM and free parts, like Baker did, we'd know what those untapped possiblities are.

[LGAFF]

Did not say he had a turbo setup, interesting

[FU]

I think there are a lot of untapped secrets about the LT-5...

I strongly agree with you here Lee. And will go out on a limb changing that statement to : I think there is still a lot of untapped secrets out there about the LT-5.
Give credit because there are still a few guy's out there pushing that envelope a bit further. A few in the Chicago area and one way down in Texas that I recall.

[Daniel_Mc]

Good luck getting Kim Baker to talk to you about the LT5 things. I didn't have much luck Rippie would probably talk but IDK how much he would have compaired to Baker. Anyone??

[tccrab]

I'm sure the 'ol Pirate JVD wouldn't mind sharing some of his knowledge on all things LT5 if'n he were asked nicely and properly motivated.
Seems to me that if anyone knew how to extract power without sacrificing longevity, he'd be one of a select few.
I've heard that a Street Skinner/Black Widow package is a pretty mean hombre. Just sayin..

'Crabs

[FU]

Yep forgot ole JVD. He's forgotten more about LT5's than most (including me) will ever know.

[LGAFF]

A lot of these guys were under a hush agreement with GM until recently......Daniel, I did learn something interesting, which I kind of wrote off then saw it again in one of the mags I just bought.... there were several cars built for racing that were made from cars burnt in a dealer fire...apparently VIN may have been removed from the frame

[XfireZ51]

Lee,

I think we're seeing what you are saying regarding the potential of an
LT-5. We have stock block 350s making mid 500chp with some porting and cams. Then we've got bigger cube motors with fairly mild cam profiles making ~700chp. And that potential is being tapped by "shade-tree" wrenches out there (no offense Pete/Marc). So the potential is easily tapped IMO. That's a relative statement and not meant to detract from what guys like Marc, Pete, Corey et al have accomplished. It just makes me wonder what could be done with that motor if guys from LOTUS for instance were unleashed on it.

[Kevin]

for lotus take a look at the jeal/lpe cars

[LGAFF]

After talking to a few people there were several tuners building engines on behalf of GM...many were sworn to silence on what they did...some are talking about writing a book. Heart of the Beast barely scratched the surface of what they were messing around with...pretty cool stuff...been talking to guys lately that I used to read about in magazines. Some I had no clue even worked on the LT-5 project.

There are some race cams/parts out there somewhere too.....I bet they are sitting at a shop waiting for someone to call and bring up the "old days"

You look through these mags and wonder who has some of these cars now...wonder how many of us have the tuned cars and don't even know it.

[XfireZ51]

for lotus take a look at the jeal/lpe cars

With all due respect to those great innovators, I think what's being done today surpasses even that.

[tomtom72]

With all due respect to those great innovators, I think what's being done today surpasses even that.

I'm not trying to argue Dom, but places Like LPE & Callaway have to meet EPA standards so that could put a damper on how far they want to go with a road legal package.

I tend to think that if the Lotus engineers were given free hand and if David Mac was not pushed out the door because he made some people look lazy, we would see just what a pushrod free motor could be doing by now.

JMHO, but after listening to just two Gatherings worth of discussions lead by Dave, Ingles, Marc, Cory, and speaking with JVD to make it street legal takes huge resources.
Peace!
:cheers:
Tom

Just a thought. If you followed F1 in the 60's & 70's you know what the Lotus & Cosworth guys are capable of doing with a 4V/DOHC design! I'd settle for just that kind of power for the street!

[FU]

for lotus take a look at the jeal/lpe cars

Comparing or even saying Jeal and LPE in the same sentence is wrong. LPE WAS the master and if he was still with us today we would advance much further faster.

With all due respect to those great innovators, I think what's being done today surpasses even that.

Well said. What is being done today surpasses the great one's by strides.

[Kevin]

Comparing or even saying Jeal and LPE in the same sentence is wrong. LPE WAS the master and if he was still with us today we would advance much further faster.




I was only referring to those who had lotus people associated with the lt5 on staff

[XfireZ51]

Tom,

I'm not looking to diminish the efforts of those pioneers. Whatever is being done today had a the platform that those people built. And it is true that GM needs to address conflicting objectives like mileage and emissions while producing ample power. My point is that based on the results we have seen more recently from the likes of Pete, Marc, Corey et al, its pretty clear that the LT-5 has much more potential than what was evident when
LPE, DRM, and others were focusing on the motor. I mean the closed deck big cube motors are something else that set the table for reliable forced induction as an example. Its taken us 20 years to get here with the advancement of technology, but there's a strong case to be made that the LT-5 has taken to this advancement like a duck to water. I just think that's part of th brilliance behind the engine design.

[tomtom72]

Dominic, I think we're saying the same thing, only from a different perspective.

I was taking the corporate view in that it costs an OEM way more cash due to regulations to do what guys like Pete, Marc, and Cory, et al do with our motors. That all those guys have pushed the envelope that far is a better testament to the basic design of our motors than almost the 24 hr record run. Okay, maybe that's a bit much!:o But not a whole lot over the top.

I will offer this up as a big negative with our motors. I can't figure out how they could be made cheaply enough to fit some corporate balance sheet. That is a real issue. If Dave is at our Gathering this year I think I shall ask if he has an opinion on that question.

IDK, but I think it's all good as long as you have no push rods!:mrgreen:

:cheers:
Tom

[Chris_32212]

Been a month or more since I read the article in the link but its about the Gen III LT-5 that never came to be. The original LT5 program director from Lotus gets the go ahead to recreate it and the results are pretty awesome HP wise. Give this is a read. This was done in May of 2015 or so.

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/an-enginelabs-exclusive-the-gen-iii-lt5-that-never-was-alive-again/

[Paul Workman]

Been a month or more since I read the article in the link but its about the Gen III LT-5 that never came to be. The original LT5 program director from Lotus gets the go ahead to recreate it and the results are pretty awesome HP wise. Give this is a read. This was done in May of 2015 or so.

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/an-enginelabs-exclusive-the-gen-iii-lt5-that-never-was-alive-again/

If you're referring to Graham Behan (SP?), That motor was discussed at the BG gathering in May. IIRC, it had made around 550 chp on the dyno. Cripes!! Once again it gives me the "WOULDA-COULDA-SHOULDA" pains to think what it could have been, had GM stayed the course! Want more? What would it have done as a closed-deck FI 6.2L? [sigh].

[grahambehan]

FI 368 CID made 850 at the tires through a 4L80.

Graham

[8cam]

If you're referring to Graham Behan (SP?), That motor was discussed at the BG gathering in May. IIRC, it had made around 550 chp on the dyno. Cripes!! Once again it gives me the "WOULDA-COULDA-SHOULDA" pains to think what it could have been, had GM stayed the course! Want more? What would it have done as a closed-deck FI 6.2L? [sigh].

FI 368 CID made 850 at the tires through a 4L80.

Graham

It wasn't simply discussed, it was there on a stand with the man himself!

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/mlitherland/ZR-1/IMG_1847_zpsmnecyf1l.jpg

[Chris_32212]

More food for thought... Quad cam 32v LS#?


http://www.hotrod.com/events/mercury-racing-teases-4-valve-ls-cylinder-heads-at-sema-2014/#.Vi_xXFaQlxQ.mailto


They claim in the article that the heads flow "well north of 400" CFM naturally aspirated. This could have been the C7 ZR-1 motor and something similar should have been the C6 ZR1 motor instead of the supercharged LS9. Just my two Cents.

[Pete]

Look who photo bombed left of picture.:-D

We can squeeze more power out of the LT5 comes down to money.
If funds were not an issue sky would be the limit we could do so much with todays technology and some motor design changes.:)

We are going faster today with the LT5 with less,just a thought.
Pete


It wasn't simply discussed, it was there on a stand with the man himself!

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/mlitherland/ZR-1/IMG_1847_zpsmnecyf1l.jpg

[Pete]

The belt drive is one of the motor design changes i was talking about.

Pete


More food for thought... Quad cam 32v LS#?


http://www.hotrod.com/events/mercury-racing-teases-4-valve-ls-cylinder-heads-at-sema-2014/#.Vi_xXFaQlxQ.mailto


They claim in the article that the heads flow "well north of 400" CFM naturally aspirated. This could have been the C7 ZR-1 motor and something similar should have been the C6 ZR1 motor instead of the supercharged LS9. Just my two Cents.