X-Brace

[Pete]

Has anybody used/using the R-D Racing X-Brace.

Does it help?

Love to get my Z to feel like a C5/6

Pros and Cons.

Thanks
Pete

[XfireZ51]

What ever happened to the braces that Vette2Vette has built? Jeff still using it?

[VetteMed]

Had the R-D piece in my garage for a few months, never installed it for fear of sacrificing ground clearance.

[XfireZ51]

Pete,

Have u considered the vert X-brace?

[secondchance]

Pete,

Have u considered the vert X-brace?

Vert X brace is somewhat flimsy. Way back when I had my 91Z, I had Corvette Masters in Maitland weld a sheet metal closing the open side of the bracing turning it into a sort of box section. If I remember correct my 91 had a locations for bolts behind the front wheels. However, for the rear Robbie had to fabricate a heavy gauge sheet metal w/ bolt welded on to the car to receive mounting nuts.
It stiffened the chassis quite a bit and did not cause major issues w/ speed bumps.

[Pete]

Pete,

Have u considered the vert X-brace?

Yes
Was also thinking of welding/boxing it to make it more rigid.

I will start looking for one,if anybody knows of one for sale please let me me know.

Pete

[-=Jeff=-]

What ever happened to the braces that Vette2Vette has built? Jeff still using it?

He is still selling it

I still have it on my car

I have been pretty happy with it

[LGAFF]

Pete are you moving to autocross?

[Polo-1]

Hey Pete

Pay for the shipping and I'll send you my old R-D brace.

Merry Christmas:cheers:

[Pete]

Freaken Awesome,Thanks Kevin:dancing
I was a good boy this year.:-D

Let me know how much i need to PayPal you.
or
Ship it and let me know what it cost.

It's already starting to be nice Christmas :)

I'll PM you my address.
Pete

[pantera1683]

Man, that's awesome!!!

[RICKYRJ1]

I have a new GM X-brace never installed yet. I was thinking of boxing it out also to make it stronger. What is the conventional wisdom? is it worth it? I only paid $100.00 for it. No! I'm not going to polish it! :p

[batchman]

I have a new GM X-brace never installed yet. I was thinking of boxing it out also to make it stronger. What is the conventional wisdom? is it worth it? I only paid $100.00 for it. No! I'm not going to polish it! :p

I've been thinking of one of these - since I race with rules I can only use the GM one and not RD. Would love a picture of yours, have wondered if it would clear my headers. Keep me in mind if you want to sell it, I think for non-rules use the RD one sounds a lot better.

Best,
- Jeff

[Pete]

I have a new GM X-brace never installed yet. I was thinking of boxing it out also to make it stronger. What is the conventional wisdom? is it worth it? I only paid $100.00 for it. No! I'm not going to polish it! :p


I get a lot of pros and cons on the R-D brace it works great for flex but loose some ground clearance.
I have installed a 4 point roll bar and it really helped the back half of the car
now the front takes the blunt of all the bumbs and too much movement this is why i wanted to know if the X-brace helps,i need to do something for the front end.
I will let you know how well it works as soon as i try it.
I would love to make my Z ride like a C5/6.
The look of a C4 to me will never get outdated.
Pete

[Kevin]

does the "harness bar" or whatever they call it do anything or is it a waste? i'm talking about the one that mounts behind the seats and comes with a camera mount?

[a1991zr1]

i love my harness bar

[Polo-1]

"The Jack Test"

Without the R-D brace, you can only pickup 2 wheels off the ground. The frame flexes too much to lift 3 wheels off. ( 94 ZR-1 with harness bar installed)

With the R-D on, lifting the car at the jacking point it will pull 3 wheels off the ground.

FYI My C6 Z06 pulls 3 wheels off the ground using jacking points. So, If I lift at the front ( under outside mirror ) 2 fronts and 1 rear are off the ground. The same thing happens at the rear lift point ( 2 rears and 1 front ).

[-=Jeff=-]

ran out of lift on my jack:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-j_kN2gSu0BE/TUX84xeGSLI/AAAAAAAABiI/7Ob71BiMJp8/s720/100_1456.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Gy1RlWRtz8g/TUX812EGz6I/AAAAAAAABiA/Do6_wSlBYXQ/s720/100_1454.JPG

[pantera1683]

I get a lot of pros and cons on the R-D brace it works great for flex but loose some ground clearance.
I have installed a 4 point roll bar and it really helped the back half of the car
now the front takes the blunt of all the bumbs and too much movement this is why i wanted to know if the X-brace helps,i need to do something for the front end.
I will let you know how well it works as soon as i try it.
I would love to make my Z ride like a C5/6.
The look of a C4 to me will never get outdated.
Pete

Pete,

Sounds like you need the RD Camber Brace not the Cross Frame.

[Kevin]

ran out of lift on my jack:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-j_kN2gSu0BE/TUX84xeGSLI/AAAAAAAABiI/7Ob71BiMJp8/s720/100_1456.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Gy1RlWRtz8g/TUX812EGz6I/AAAAAAAABiA/Do6_wSlBYXQ/s720/100_1454.JPG

that's just from the harness bar?

[GOLDCYLON]

i love my harness bar

X2 my Brey Krause harness bar is going nowhere.

[Pete]

"The Jack Test"

Without the R-D brace, you can only pickup 2 wheels off the ground. The frame flexes too much to lift 3 wheels off. ( 94 ZR-1 with harness bar installed)

With the R-D on, lifting the car at the jacking point it will pull 3 wheels off the ground.

FYI My C6 Z06 pulls 3 wheels off the ground using jacking points. So, If I lift at the front ( under outside mirror ) 2 fronts and 1 rear are off the ground. The same thing happens at the rear lift point ( 2 rears and 1 front ).

Kevin, stop teasing me and ship it already.
so your saying it really helps/improves like a C5/6,i can't wait.

Did you send it yet.:)

Pete

[-=Jeff=-]

Nope, I don't have a harness bar.. I have these:

http://www.vette2vette.com/product/86-96-c4-no-flex-frame-stiffener-bar-system

Designed by Gordon Killebrew

[Kevin]

Nope, I don't have a harness bar.. I have these:

http://www.vette2vette.com/product/86-96-c4-no-flex-frame-stiffener-bar-system

Designed by Gordon Killebrew
looks awesome.

i know under some circumstances I can feel the cab of the car twist so I didn't
know if having that harness bar would help

[USAFPILOT]

does anyone have a pic of that system installed? I can hear my car creak and moan going in and out of my driveway...maybe if it was stiffened up it wouldn't do that anymore.

[-=Jeff=-]

does anyone have a pic of that system installed? I can hear my car creak and moan going in and out of my driveway...maybe if it was stiffened up it wouldn't do that anymore.

The Killebrew one?

https://picasaweb.google.com/101338012938494992078/C4FrameBrace

and some in here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/101338012938494992078/LEDsAndBrace

[GOLDCYLON]

Looks like a nice brace. But I think its too high a profile and the enlongated speed humps in my neighborhood would tear it up. Would love it if is was less of a profie some how.

[-=Jeff=-]

Looks like a nice brace. But I think its too high a profile and the enlongated speed humps in my neighborhood would tear it up. Would love it if is was less of a profie some how.

Which brace are you referring to?

[GOLDCYLON]

Which brace are you referring to?


Yours Bro !!!!:-D


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ym7T1HzxKFM/TBV-B_uOY4I/AAAAAAAAA1U/F5PdnPgirlk/s576/DSC_0065.JPG

Scape city in my hood

[-=Jeff=-]

Exhaust scrapes before the brace does

[XfireZ51]

I've seen Jeff's brace and it looks like it tucks up alongside the frame rail. The only issue I saw was interference for a jack on the jacking points.

[GOLDCYLON]

Must be the angle of the pic. It looks low. I want it but my enlonged Speed humps would eat is because they are enlongated. How long did it take to install?

[Pete]

I've seen Jeff's brace and it looks like it tucks up alongside the frame rail. The only issue I saw was interference for a jack on the jacking points.


The problem i see with Jeff's frame brackets is they have rod ends which move/rotate frame connectors are suppose to be solid not swivel.

I'm thinking this is the reason why he ran out of jack before the wheels got off the ground.
I'm sure a few more pumps the wheels would be off the ground but with enough pumps you'd be able to get jello off the ground.

Just my thoughts.
Pete

[USAFPILOT]

doesn't look too low for me a the stock ride height.

[GOLDCYLON]

doesn't look too low for me a the stock ride height.


Im stock height as well. Normal driving no issue but my issue is the wide enlongated speed humps in my gated community that almost high center my ride at any angle

[GOLDCYLON]

The problem i see with Jeff's frame brackets is they have rod ends which move/rotate frame connectors are suppose to be solid not swivel.

I'm thinking this is the reason why he ran out of jack before the wheels got off the ground.
I'm sure a few more pumps the wheels would be off the ground but with enough pumps you'd be able to get jello off the ground.

Just my thoughts.
Pete


Also with the Heim joints that Pete is referring to they tend to get dirt/Grit in them and can squeek like a MOFO. When I replaced my trailing arms with the Banski trailing arms they offer a new boot kit for these joints to help keep out the dirt and grit out of the Heim Joints. If I was to install this brace the the boot cover for the joints would be a must. Trust me. GC

[USAFPILOT]

well the brace isn't supposed to move around right...if it is fixed in one position it shouldn't make any noise.

[GOLDCYLON]

well the brace isn't supposed to move around right...if it is fixed in one position it shouldn't make any noise.

Not with Heim joints. Its designed to move like Pete was stating.

[USAFPILOT]

if it can move then can't the chassis still flex?

[GOLDCYLON]

if it can move then can't the chassis still flex?


A little bit yes

[Kevin]

damn it now I'm looking for the cross bar/harness bar thing

[-=Jeff=-]

you guys can debate the braces I have all you want..

All I know is the car is stiffer then without them..

As for the design and the heim joints, Ask Gordon Killebrew why they were used

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Alright, alright.......now we just have to borrow one and make a nice copy......LOL:p

[USAFPILOT]

i think I am going to get that Killebrew Brace.

[Polo-1]

I like the Killebrew brace, but I know the c4 frame needs a X brace....

Pete should have it at the end of this next week and I'll let him say how the X works.

[RHanselman]

Anyone have the roof brace? I've been looking for one for sometime now... I like top off driving but the car gets too loose!

[USAFPILOT]

I bet the Killebrew brace + the Targa Truss + the Harness Bar + RD Camber Brace would equal solid.

[Kevin]

then comes the porting to make up for the extra weight.

[USAFPILOT]

thats what I keep thinking...I add weight to stiffen it up and then go slower? hmmm

[Hib Halverson]

Has anybody used/using the R-D Racing X-Brace.

Does it help?

Love to get my Z to feel like a C5/6

Pros and Cons.

Thanks
Pete

To get a 2G ZR1 to feel like a C5/6 you'll need a lot more than the "R-D Racing X-Brace. In fact, it's not possible to do that.

You could get about 50% of the way there, but putting a cage in the car then upgrading the suspension to Z07 specs. You'd have a stiffer and, perhaps, better handing car but the ride would not be as nice and you'd be putting a bunch of weight in the car.

Accept that you can't DIY 20 years of technical evolution then enjoy your ZR-1 for what it is....one of the finest examples of late-'80s American performance car technology.

[rhipsher]

The last thing I want is to add weight to my car. Our cars will never feel like the C5/6 but there are things you can do to stiffen the suspension up and dramatically improve the handling. Poly bushings will make a huge difference. And with coil overs and poly bushings youll have one lethal handling ZR-1. I used to drive around often with my roof off but at a certain speed the wind causes the passenger side seat belt to violently rap between the door and the seat bolster. I've been up to 150mph with the top off. That was painful. Hahaha! I don't recommend it.

[Pete]

The last thing I want is to add weight to my car. Our cars will never feel like the C5/6 but there are things you can do to stiffen the suspension up and dramatically improve the handling. Poly bushings will make a huge difference. And with coil overs and poly bushings youll have one lethal handling ZR-1. I used to drive around often with my roof off but at a certain speed the wind causes the passenger side seat belt to violently rap between the door and the seat bolster. I've been up to 150mph with the top off. That was painful. Hahaha! I don't recommend it.


Rick,i have the poly bushings,coilovers and love it.
I have installed a 4 point cage i kept getting kick out at the track:).
Cage helped the back half of the car,now i wanna try the front half.

I don't care to take a 90 degree turn at 200mph or do 1.5 G's around a turn i want the solid chassis like a C5/6 and if i don't get 100%,i'll take what i can get,some is better then none.
This is why i started the thread.

Pete

[Kevin]

anyone know of a harness bar for sale on the cheap?

[rhipsher]

Rick,i have the poly bushings,coilovers and love it.
I have installed a 4 point cage i kept getting kick out at the track:).
Cage helped the back half of the car,now i wanna try the front half.

I don't care to take a 90 degree turn at 200mph or do 1.5 G's around a turn i want the solid chassis like a C5/6 and if i don't get 100%,i'll take what i can get,some is better then none.
This is why i started the thread.

Pete I hear ya man. My car feels so planted now. I have no more front end vibration at any speed. The rear end doesn't feel like its floating around in a long fast sweeping corner. It just sucks down and gets it. Most all of my Texas ZR-1 brothers have driven each others ZR-1's at one time or another and my car just turned 95k miles and it feels like a much tighter handling car than even the low mile Z's I've been in. Only one of my ZR-1 buddies hated the poly. He complained that they were to stiff and nick named my car "The kidney Puncher". But he also hated my Spec stage 3 + clutch to. He let it out like you would a stock clutch and killed the car three times. Complained the whole time. As I'm sitting in my own passengers seat I said you just suck at driving as I'm laughing at him the third time he kills the car. And his wife jumped in it and drove it just fine and didn't kill it once.:-D That woman can drive. Hit 7k and shifted to the next gear no problem at all.:cheers:

[GOLDCYLON]

Anyone have the roof brace? I've been looking for one for sometime now... I like top off driving but the car gets too loose!


I do Ron. I just bought one last week used on CF. I cant give you an impression although until my car is up and running again. Daryll

[GOLDCYLON]

anyone know of a harness bar for sale on the cheap?


Post up a WTB over at CF. That were I picked up my Brey Krause setup. Ricky I believe as well. GC

[RHanselman]

The last thing I want is to add weight to my car. Our cars will never feel like the C5/6 but there are things you can do to stiffen the suspension up and dramatically improve the handling. Poly bushings will make a huge difference. And with coil overs and poly bushings youll have one lethal handling ZR-1. I used to drive around often with my roof off but at a certain speed the wind causes the passenger side seat belt to violently rap between the door and the seat bolster. I've been up to 150mph with the top off. That was painful. Hahaha! I don't recommend it.

I was told once that the max speed with the top off was 120 mph. Something about the rear hatch blowing off?

[RHanselman]

I do Ron. I just bought one last week used on CF. I cant give you an impression although until my car is up and running again. Daryll

I'll try there. I used one at BG demo'ing for a guy selling them. Wish i would have bought it then. Makes a world of diff...

[LGAFF]

Skid Pad Slalom
C6 GS 0.96 70.7
C4 DRM Coilover 0.99 72.1
Snakeskinner 1.04 70.4 (leaf spring setup; GM Perf team setup)
C6 Z06 1.06 74.1


Snakeskinner had to much power on the Slalom and overwhelmed the rears....both cars ram on Goodyear GS-CS tires...both 1.04 and 72.1 were records.

Pete I would think you have the best of both worlds with coilovers and good tires...

[Pete]

Skid Pad Slalom
C6 GS 0.96 70.7
C4 DRM Coilover 0.99 72.1
Snakeskinner 1.04 70.4 (leaf spring setup; GM Perf team setup)
C6 Z06 1.06 74.1

Snakeskinner had to much power on the Slalom and overwhelmed the rears....both cars ram on Goodyear GS-CS tires...both 1.04 and 72.1 were records.

Pete I would think you have the best of both worlds with coilovers and good tires...


Thanks for the info Lee.
I'm sure todays tire technology has gotten better even over those old GS-CS.
I was not looking to pull any G's i'm happy with the G's she does now.
Like i mention before just want the solid feel of a C5/6

Pete

[LGAFF]

Anyone know how to make a table in the message body, it bunches everything up

[rhipsher]

I was told once that the max speed with the top off was 120 mph. Something about the rear hatch blowing off? Then im living proof that's not true. The wind went right over the top of my head. If my rear hatch would have blown off you guys would have heard about it. Luckily it didn't.

[Hib Halverson]

Skid Pad Slalom
C6 GS 0.96 70.7
C4 DRM Coilover 0.99 72.1
Snakeskinner 1.04 70.4 (leaf spring setup; GM Perf team setup)
C6 Z06 1.06 74.1


Snakeskinner had to much power on the Slalom and overwhelmed the rears....both cars ram on Goodyear GS-CS tires...both 1.04 and 72.1 were records.

Pete I would think you have the best of both worlds with coilovers and good tires...

In addition to having S-compound Goodyears and sometimes race tires, Snake Skinner also weighed quite a bit less than a stock ZR-1 because it had a gutted interior, no A/C, no sound system, a Lexan hatch and a lightweight hood.

It was a fun car to drive, that's for sure!

[LGAFF]

In addition to having S-compound Goodyears and sometimes race tires, Snake Skinner also weighed quite a bit less than a stock ZR-1 because it had a gutted interior, no A/C, no sound system, a Lexan hatch and a lightweight hood.

It was a fun car to drive, that's for sure!


My 90 build is a "streetskinner" no AC/no radio, etc....lexan hatch/carbon fiber stuff will not be in the budget but I will have 500+ hp ...I even have the proper Gen I dymags

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Has anyone tried the X-brace and the Killebrew brace together? I may do this for the convertible.

[RHanselman]

Nope, i just have the x brace... Ive not even driven a C4 conv...

[Paul Workman]

Anyone know how to make a table in the message body, it bunches everything up

The only way I've found is to first convert the table to a jpeg file and either attach it, or what looks the best is to scan it and upload it to your hosting site, and then inserting it as an "".

Here's a VATS table sample that was first in Excel, scanned, posted and retrieved...

[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/vatskeychart.jpg

But, if there's a good way to avoid having to format it as a picture, then directly link it - all to avoid the rows and columns being distorted, I'm all ears!

P.