New Registry Tech Data Section: Members Only?

[A26B]

While writing a response to another thread, I had an idea to run by everyone.

What about a new Technical Section on the Registry website? Put these new, modern Tech Data Articles in a special area of the ZR-1 Net Registry website and make it accessible only by Members in good standing. Makes being a Member special and a great "carrot" to entice new Forum surfers to join the Registry.

The new articles can always be revised to improve it, based on forum members use & experience. In that regard, suggestions for modification to the procedure could be considered by a small panel of very experienced members and advisors, then submitted to a Executive Committee member to edit the Article as directed.

You may be asking why an Executive Committee member to edit the Article. Because the Executive Committee always has access to the Registry website and will only edit the Article exactly as directed.

I know, we already have something of this nature on the Registry website, but it is in dire need of a facelift & update to utilize all of the great digital photography now available. A great deal of the various subjects are already there, only needing improvement & updating.

It might work best if the Tech Data Articles were organized better, perhaps broken into Main Categories and Sub-Categories, for instance:

Engine
Fuel Injector Replacement
Secondary Port Throttle System Maintenance
Water Pump Replacement
Alternator Repair & Replacement
Starter Repair & Replacement
etc.

Clutch, Transmission & Differential
Flywheel, Clutch, Pilot & Throwout Bearing Replacement
Shifter Replacement

Suspension

Brakes

Electrical

Interior

etc.

The "Solutions" concept is a big step in the right direction, but often, the link to an entire thread with corrections sometimes made, can make for difficult comprehension and long reading. 'Solutions" can still fill a need for trouble shooting, just put the hardcore, mechanical procedures into Tech Data Articles. Everyone knows the Service Manuals are inadequate, leaving a lot of room for improvement with real pictures and more detailed explanations which are necessary for the typical ZR-1, do-it-yourself owner.

Thoughts???

[Gunny]

Excellent Idea :thumbsup:

Can you have it up & running by tomorrow morning?


George

[LGAFF]

Thats a genius idea Jerry

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Jerry,

Great idea and I have always thought; it was brought up years ago but no one ever acted on it. I think paying members in good standing should have some special benefits.

Craig

[ZZZZZR1]

Great idea!!! Member benefit!

[USAFPILOT]

So much for the "brotherhood"...usually I only pay when I like the color of the T shirt. haha

[tomtom72]

:o at first look I thought it was a slam dunk Jerry. Make it so that our hard came by technical info is in the members section at the net registry site.

My only thought with regards to reservations is this. I was doing research in 03 & 04 to decide if I should buy so rare a car. I was looking for support in mechanical issues and I found it at our mothership. The fact that it seemed to be all there in one easily accessed place with no strings attached was a deciding factor, well that and our forum. I can't say for sure that both sources being free was the kernel, but easily accessed information certainly was the kernel. I would just add that I actually joined the registry before I bought my car. I would like to think that my thought process figured "well, we gotta pay for all this free stuff somehow, join up!" I guess I would also like to think that there are enough noobs that would think the same way, eventually if not sooner after they see the undefined dividends of membership.

:o I know it sounds like I just ran a circle. I wish there was a way to quantify my theory that most of the noobs eventually figure it out and join up.
Sorry for the dissenting opinion. BFO: How do other Registries treat their technical information?:o

:cheers:
Tom

[DaveK]

I don't have a stance either way really - I can see benefits from both. One suggestion I have though is that maybe the tech info and 'solutions' should be hosted in a 'wiki' that way it can be organised and updated more easily. It would also help remove some of the 'banter' that inevitably clutters the solutions pages.

(I don't mind the banter on the posts - just makes it harder to find the clear solutions at times.)

Just a few thoughts.

Dave

[LGAFF]

Keep in mind the posts and support would still be here, just the in depth articles would be in the members section, just like HOTB is limited access. I do not see that as an issue, this is more "bonus" material

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Excellent idea, IMO.

[A26B]

Keep in mind the posts and support would still be here, just the in depth articles would be in the members section, just like HOTB is limited access. I do not see that as an issue, this is more "bonus" material

This is correct and what I had in mind. Professional concise, technical data articles, without names, comments, posts....... Just the beef. I envision that the trouble shooting would still be open access on the forums, and an integral part of solutions.

For quite some time now, we have been hearing from paying members, that there should be some perks for being a member, besides a tee shirt & sticker. We have also heard the same sort of commentary from non-members. If the concept of a modern, detailed service manual supplement, Tech Data Sheet/Articles in a Members only section, catches on, it is a step in that direction.

The Solutions section is a huge improvement over just the search feature and would remain so. Call it a first level of technical support if you will. That would get a prospective member in the door. Access to the Tech Data would be a Registry Member perk.

I have no pride of authorship here. This is an open discussion on the merits to see if there is a direction and where it should go, if at all. So, keep the input going it's all good.:cheers:

[tomtom72]

:o I stand corrected Gentlemen.

If we would allow the net registry's Technical sections composed of all the common issues & how to's and maintenance issues to remain open to non-members as a taste of what you get when you join our Registry then I can get behind the idea wholeheartedly!:thumbsup:

:cheers:
Tom

[GOLDCYLON]

Jerry. I like this idea and as a paying member have no problem with this concept. However I would like to acknowlege all the hard work Cliff has done in his Solutions sections on this forum to date. Thats a pile of unpaid "work" with the single goal of helping ALL forum members reguardless.

I understand that it can take some time to get to the actual solution sometimes as folks chime in and banter about whatnot. It appears you are looking for a "meat and potatoes" solution to the registry member only section.

Are you planning on bringing Cliff into this concept as he has already done most of the work already? A lot of other folks can colloborate as well? Pete etc.

Just some thoughts. D

[Paul Workman]

I'm NOT Jerry. But, if I understand his suggestion, I don't see a conflict, and certainly it was no affront to the massive amount of work you've done compiling what is essentially a "READER'S GUIDE" by way of the SOLUTIONS sticky. In short, it seems to me (by this post and your scathing PM to Jerry and me) there is at least a big misunderstanding in the intent J put forth, or at worst a needless pissin' match has ensued...over what? A suggestion that some topics be formally written to address a concise technical article that has been "washed" to assure accuracy and expediency???

If you don't want to be involved with writing formal tech articles - fine. But, why the animosity??? :icon_scra I don't get it. (Taking nothing away from the Solutions section, which represents a extraordinary achievement and a huge help to anyone doing research on a wide variety of topics, as far as it goes.)

But, as I said, Solutions also strikes me as akin to a "READERS GUIDE" (or bulletin board); a list of links to related topics written up by many individuals wishing to contribute information - or just discussion - on a variety of topics. That is NOT a bad thing! Anyone doing research on a topic from global warming to Greek sexuality (sorry Pete:p) benefits from just such a work as the Solutions section provides. Without it, finding help on specific topics would be an arduous task, or a pain in the arse at least. IMO, the first stop to find the latest ZR-1 data or maybe just discussion would be Solutions - a powerful resource, thanks to you, Cliff. But, a list of links and discussions on a topic from various individuals, replete with a mix of extraneous babble (and I'm the worst offender of babble, I admit) is not the same as a succinct, scrutinized technical article. Knowhaddimean???

Additional comments by me in blue...

I respectfully decline participation in the Tech Data Section development as I have no clue what that is other than replacing/upgrading the ZR1netregistry.com Maintenance section. Jerry's requirements in regard to writing and technical skills far exceed my spare time capabilities ;) OK

To me it appears Jerry has in mind a committee (Kind of like the Gov) to define the Tech Data Section development. It also appears to me it is political or about money which I have promised administrators I would not involve myself in as long as I am a member. I survive nicely using the ZR1netregistry.com Maintenance section and Solutions which Jerry apparently has issues with (see Red below for Jerry's issues with Solutions).

Bullsh*t That is the only way to respond to such a wild, unwarranted statement. Gawd I hope you were just kidding!?

Now if someone can explain to me what Jerry means when he says
The "Solutions" concept is often linked to an entire thread with corrections sometimes made, can make for difficult comprehension and long reading.

I think he's referring to posts from multiple contributors that may or seem to conflict, often because of the context in which they were written (not so much in error, per se')

Approximately 90% of Solutions references refer to individual posts and not to general threads except for restorations for example. Maybe Jerry is confusing the Solutions Index with the SEARCH which is not available to guests. The SEARCH only links to threads.

And........what does Jerry mean when he says
Solutions Section contains revisons on top of corrections and can be difficult to read and retain.

I am asking so I can improve my own Solutions Index I keep on this computer which improvement I will upload to the Forum Solutions Sticky if it is an improvement I can implement.

I, for one, have nothing to suggest for improving on what I feel is an excellent body of work; i.e.,Solutions. In no way do I think Jerry intended to come off as critical of your work, but rather trying to explain why select topics might be elevated to a formal treatment. Solutions, as it stands, is a very helpful tool for getting at information to support many a formal article.

Nobody is suggesting that you, Cliff, attempt to re-write Solutions or even change the format in any way. I think I speak for us all when I say how grateful we are to have the benefit of Solutions. However, if and when a particular topic of exceptional interest, e.g. this lifter fiasco comes up, I would hope that you would be willing to write it, or at least contribute to it.

I don't know if this helps in any way, but I hope so.

[daviddu79]

Good idea

[mike100]

Well, if the author of the tech content is in favor of making it 'pay to see', then fine, but I like the original idea that if it was just public tech info originally, then just leave it available. There is probably a 3:1 poster to lurker ratio, so who knows how many people this information benefits every week.

I'm not opposed to contributing to the site, but I don't like recurring bills and can't guarantee year after year contributions...but that's just me. I also tend to trade cars every couple of year as well.

[xlr8nflorida]

I think Dynomite has done an outstanding job in the solutions department.

I'd concentrate on a getting out a "regular newsletter" and updating the website on a regular basis before taking on another project that achieves mediocre results at best.

[A26B]

Well, if the author of the tech content is in favor of making it 'pay to see', then fine, but I like the original idea that if it was just public tech info originally, then just leave it available. There is probably a 3:1 poster to lurker ratio, so who knows how many people this information benefits every week.

I'm not opposed to contributing to the site, but I don't like recurring bills and can't guarantee year after year contributions...but that's just me. I also tend to trade cars every couple of year as well.

Of course, the final concept is yet to be determined, but what i am proposing for consideration is to establish an outline of Tech Articles that can be based partly on some of the maintenance topics already on the Registry website and also on topics that are in the forum format and could be revised into a more formal presentation such as Paul suggested. Articles may have more than on person working on the content as a contribution to the project, so it's Members working together for the good of the Registry, not a pay-to-see decision.

The Registry requires a lot of work & personal expense by individuals willing to serve. It doesn't just happen. We need members to keep it alive & well. Paying members need to see some reward for their support of the Registry.

As far a recurring bills.... you only pay once a year, it doesn't automatically charge your account each year, so if you decide to opt out for whatever reason, just don't renew your membership. If you don't mind contributing to the site, then become a member. it costs less than half a tank of gas. If you own a ZR-1, then that's easily affordable.

[Gunny]

The Registry requires a lot of work & personal expense by individuals willing to serve. It doesn't just happen. We need members to keep it alive & well. Paying members need to see some reward for their support of the Registry.

Well said, Jerry.


George

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Cliff,

I think there might be a misunderstanding of Jerry's intent. All he is saying to me is that we have some quality, well written, actual tech articles in a location for just the paying members as membership should have its privileges. Although there is "techincal" information on the forum in various pieces and posts with some being quite detail, they are not articles by any means and great for what it is. Personally, I use several forums to gather technical information or "how to" and try to piece the info together to do what I have to do or troubleshoot for a project or issue. I have a binder of technical articles from various sources and magazines that I save and have tabbed for future use, but can't really print some of the forum posts to do the same with all the input and comments thrown in there.

I am curious to know what the membership really is on the paying members versus just members that sign up for the forum? I know there are many lurkers out there too and I often see names even in Corvette magazines that I have never heard of that are ZR-1 owners too. I am sure they too frequent Registry site for information and help.

To tell you the truth, this is the only site where I consider the members "Friends" and have made some lasting friendships. If you go to one of the Gatherings you will see what I mean. There are folks like Jerry, Jim, Dennis, John, Keith, Pete, Tom, David, Paul, Rich, Marc, Yun, Ted, Robert, Carter, Lee, and the list could go on and on (not intending to mention all or forget anyone) that will let you call them at 2 AM in the morning if you are stranded or give you their spare tire to get you home or parts they brought on the road to get you running. Some of them may not be paying members, but I'm sure if it was important to them they would pay the annual fees for membership too, but these are the same folks that provide or share technical info as you do.

I don't see any relationship to the work you put into solutions and that is a nice tool and kudos for all the work you put into it.

All I'm saying is that membership should have its privileges.:cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

So we have a Dynamite and a Dynomite. I have to look good for the "a" and the "o" in my old age.

Cliff,

I think basically Jerry is trying to step it up a notch and bring more quality to the organization as is Jim, David, George and the others. Can you imagine the amount of time them and others have put into this Registry? I know you can, I feel like I wish there were more I could do myself.

Like Jerry said, it could have just been a conversation in the paying member side but the intent was to get input from all so no harm, no foul here. We somewhat already have that in the newsletter as I believe those tech articles should only be available to paying members. I have to do a research paper about the US Debt Crisis so you can feel sorry for me now.

Take care,

Craig:handshak:

[Kevin]

my membership in the registry comes as goes....the newsletter is nice, reading the old stuff is nice, and the shirts are nice. but what else do you get for your money besides a shirt and a newsletter? The main things are free, the friendship, carlisle, the gathering...there's no registry charge for it. It would be nice to have a little extra for the money you give to the registry

[A1990]

my membership in the registry comes as goes....the newsletter is nice, reading the old stuff is nice, and the shirts are nice. but what else do you get for your money besides a shirt and a newsletter? The main things are free, the friendship, carlisle, the gathering...there's no registry charge for it. It would be nice to have a little extra for the money you give to the registry

For the record, from the Registry's perspective, Carlisle, The Gathering, the forum and the Registry's website are not "free". We have expenses involved in each. Everything provided at the Registry tent during Carlisle would not be possible without the Registry's members and sponsors contributions.

[Hammer]

Maybe this subject should be moved to the Members Only Section, since in reality it would be the members who get to decide.

Will we do this by vote of the majority, i.e., 51% of ALL the registered members?

By the way:

How's Issues 26 and 27 of the HOTB coming along?
How's the revamping of the By-Laws comng along?
How's the redistricting of the Registry Regions coming along?
How's the revamped ZR-1 Registry Store coming along?
One of the board could call everybody in the Members Specials ad area and get that updated.

Just asking...seems there are plenty of other things to do besides what you are talking about taking on with a Tech Section.

Remember, this was posted in the Technical Forum Section not the Members section. Hammer away as usual.

[Dynamite]

Don't ya mean Hammer away as usual :sign10:

I am with you......:salute:


Will we do this by vote of the majority, i.e., 51% of ALL the registered members?

By the way:

How's Issues 26 and 27 of the HOTB coming along?
How's the revamping of the By-Laws comng along?
How's the redistricting of the Registry Regions coming along?
How's the revamped ZR-1 Registry Store coming along?
One of the board could call everybody in the Members Specials ad area and get that updated.

Just asking...seems there are plenty of other things to do besides what you are talking about taking on with a Tech Section.

Remember, this was posted in the Technical Forum Section not the Members section. Flame away...as usual.

[ZZZZZR1]

Will we do this by vote of the majority, i.e., 51% of ALL the registered members?

I think Jerry ment move the thread to the members only section for a members only discussion.

By the way:

How's Issues 26 and 27 of the HOTB coming along?

Working on it (both Jerry and Phil are working on this) *** special edition about the Stillwater Event!!!!

How's the revamping of the By-Laws comng along?

Jerry has been working on something to bring to the membership and this isn't something that is done in a few weeks or months.

How's the redistricting of the Registry Regions coming along?

We have some of the redistricting done, but more to do and love to get members input on this.

How's the revamped ZR-1 Registry Store coming along?

Constantine has it nearly completed, but still has to be installed and set to work with our bank account, etc.

One of the board could call everybody in the Members Specials ad area and get that updated.

Just asking...seems there are plenty of other things to do besides what you are talking about taking on with a Tech Section.

Remember, this was posted in the Technical Forum Section not the Members section. Flame away...as usual.

John,

We are doing our best with finishing these very important projects (among other things not listed) and mixing it with our personal lives / work as well.

Thanks for posting this and hope to post more results soon! :thumbsup:

:cheers:

David

[Kevin]

For the record, from the Registry's perspective, Carlisle, The Gathering, the forum and the Registry's website are not "free". We have expenses involved in each. Everything provided at the Registry tent during Carlisle would not be possible without the Registry's members and sponsors contributions.

What I meant that as a member/non-member I don't have to pay more to attend carlise or the gathering or hang out and ******** with other zr-1 guys. The burgers and drinks that the registry provided at carlisle were very nice and appreciated, if not by everyone definitely by me

[tomtom72]

Cliff, No I didn't edit my post.....:o I'm fairly sure it is as I originally wrote it...I see that my thoughts are not exactly clear though. I should have made a better demarcation between our Forum and the mothership ( net registry home site ).....senility I guess! I know what I meant, but it's not real clear to everyone else! My bad!:o

Every time I see "members only" I think of the netregistry site.....not our forum. I will have to remember to remember that we have a "members only" section here as well.

I had thought that the "Solutions" sticky here in our Technical Section would remain as viewable to all who come to our forum. I feel that Cliff's Notes is a great way to show possible ZR-1 buyers that if you buy one there is help that is not only a catalog of past issues & answers, but that it is a living section being constantly added to and updated as new issues come up. I had also thought that we would leave the "Maintenance" section at the mothership alone ( free as it is now ) to attract the same perspective buyers?

:cheers:
Tom

[Aurora40]

I guess I'll put my two cents out there. Not necessarily as a yes/no.

I think a formal tech section would be great. If it had accurate, up-to-date info, pictures that weren't red "x"s, was easy to search, etc. The forum is good to a point, and sticky type threads are good to a point. Dynomite's efforts are certainly appreciated, but limited a bit by the fact that it's a forum. If the info in a post needs to be updated, only the original poster can do that, etc.

I'd only point out that this is a difficult problem to solve, especially without an ongoing effort to keep articles up-to-date as information or methods to fix these cars change/improve. This is the kind of thing companies with huge resources struggle to do well.

That said, I share the thought that more information that is created by registry members should be a membership perk. You don't want to contrive the value of being a member by like moving posts or something, but if the registry had elegant solutions behind a paid wall, that sounds excellent.

My other thought is this: Whatever form this new information takes, people will need to authenticate if it is member's only. My suggestion is that the current form of this is pretty poor. This forum has one username/password for use that is different from the one used to access zr1netregistry.com/members.htm And then of course there is some different set of people that are on the registry vs open listservs.

I personally think that the authentication should be standardized and fixed before adding more properties that will utilize it. A single account would be great, single sign-on would be even better. I'd have to think this would make the membership director's job a bit easier too, as now there are at least 3 things you need to set/unset as a person joins or leaves, the forum, the listserv, and sending them the "shared" info (which you can't actually revoke from them if they leave).

So to summarize:

I think a more formal solutions/maintenance section for members only would be excellent.

I am concerned it would be a large effort to keep it up to date and useful, and I'm concerned that the current method of identifying yourself as a member would make for a clunky experience.

[Paul Workman]

.

OK....Paul......Jim (QB93Z) has told me it is fine for you to call my statements what you like....but beware...I now have a green light to do the same in return :sign10:

Cliff...I don't know WTF you're talking about! WHAT STATEMENTS??? And, frankly I'm getting a little sick of this self-serving, unwarranted, never ending rant of yours over "Solutions" et al! But, I'm reeeeaaly getting tired of your oblique and sometimes direct shots at me, impugning me (and others) for things I/we didn't do or imply or say or whatever.

[A26B]

I guess I'll put my two cents out there. Not necessarily as a yes/no.

I think a formal tech section would be great. If it had accurate, up-to-date info, pictures that weren't red "x"s, was easy to search, etc. The forum is good to a point, and sticky type threads are good to a point. Dynomite's efforts are certainly appreciated, but limited a bit by the fact that it's a forum. If the info in a post needs to be updated, only the original poster can do that, etc.

I'd only point out that this is a difficult problem to solve, especially without an ongoing effort to keep articles up-to-date as information or methods to fix these cars change/improve. This is the kind of thing companies with huge resources struggle to do well.

The objective that I perceive, is very much as you describe. There is an article in the Oct 2011 issue of Corvette Magazine, titled "Water Pump Swap." It's for a C5 and used here as an example for discussion reference only. it contains step-by-step pictures. I think it would be even more effective if the text was directly under the associated photo.

That said, I share the thought that more information that is created by registry members should be a membership perk. You don't want to contrive the value of being a member by like moving posts or something, but if the registry had elegant solutions behind a paid wall, that sounds excellent.

I agree & support that concept as well.

My other thought is this: Whatever form this new information takes, people will need to authenticate if it is member's only. My suggestion is that the current form of this is pretty poor. This forum has one username/password for use that is different from the one used to access zr1netregistry.com/members.htm And then of course there is some different set of people that are on the registry vs open listservs.

I personally think that the authentication should be standardized and fixed before adding more properties that will utilize it. A single account would be great, single sign-on would be even better. I'd have to think this would make the membership director's job a bit easier too, as now there are at least 3 things you need to set/unset as a person joins or leaves, the forum, the listserv, and sending them the "shared" info (which you can't actually revoke from them if they leave).

Excellent point and well above my knowledge level!

So to summarize:

I think a more formal solutions/maintenance section for members only would be excellent.

I am concerned it would be a large effort to keep it up to date and useful, and I'm concerned that the current method of identifying yourself as a member would make for a clunky experience.

It would be a large project, but can be made managable if taken one procedure at a time and remain a work-in-progress. It will be easy to use if established in an outline/index manner, perhaps similar to the GM Service Manuals.

Thanks for your constructive input.

[FU]

Gentlmen.... can we have a cooling off preiod ? Period :handshak:

Thank you.

[Aurora40]

Excellent point and well above my knowledge level

I may have gotten ahead of myself. I was trying to stay agnostic to the final implementation, but in my head I picture something akin to a wiki, where members can modify the articles as they notice it has "aged" or gotten out of date with more current info/discoveries.

But if that's not the case, if editing/posting the articles would be centralized, the current method of authentication used for the Registry site member's area is no worse than the current scenario.

I don't know what would differentiate this new effort from the "Maintenance" section of the registry site. I'm sure that info was all great when first put out, but the value falls off as time passes and no one updates it.

I'm not saying that will happen, more asking what would differentiate this from past efforts?

Unrelated, I'd also toss out that what might be an easier/quicker win would be to take the many technical articles from the HotB newsletter and post them in a searchable/indexed article format. There is a lot of stuff in those newsletters, but it is hard to find it if you don't know exactly what article and issue you are looking for.

[A26B]

Bob,
I still think we are thinking along the same lines. It doesn't really matter where the origin of a particular tech subject comes from. Considering the legitimate suggestions in this thread, I will attempt to summarize.

Purpose:
1. Establish an easy to use index of maintenance procedures with major topic sections & sub-topics.

Example:I. LT5 Engine
A. Specifications
1. Clearances
2. Sealants & Adhesives
3. etc.

B. Mechanical Maintenance [Minor]
1. Secondary Port Throttle
2. Fuel Injectors
3. Starter
4. etc

C. Mechanical Maintenance [Major]
1. Engine Removal
2. Camshaft R&R
3. Cylinder Head R&R
6. etc

II. CLutch & Transmission

III. Driveline & Differential

IV. Suspension

V. Brakes

etc.

2. Establish a standard format (photos, captions, order, etc., for each article. Only one article per subject.

3. Edit existing maintenance articles on the Registry Forum. Add articles as needed, by creating from scratch, forum threads and all other useful resources.

The foregoing is just a rough outline of a possible starting point.

I may have gotten ahead of myself. I was trying to stay agnostic to the final implementation, but in my head I picture something akin to a wiki, where members can modify the articles as they notice it has "aged" or gotten out of date with more current info/discoveries.
I do not concur with the idea of a "wiki" with free access by the members. Suggestions for modifications, YES. Free access is what has made many of the forum tech articles "cluttered" and in some cases wrong & misleading.

But if that's not the case, if editing/posting the articles would be centralized, the current method of authentication used for the Registry site member's area is no worse than the current scenario.
You will have to help me with this.... not sure I understand. Can you elaborate a bit?

I don't know what would differentiate this new effort from the "Maintenance" section of the registry site. I'm sure that info was all great when first put out, but the value falls off as time passes and no one updates it.
I would suggest that the proposed tech data section (or whatever we ultimately call it) replace the existing Registry maintenance section. I do NOT recommend another similar section.

Unrelated, I'd also toss out that what might be an easier/quicker win would be to take the many technical articles from the HotB newsletter and post them in a searchable/indexed article format. There is a lot of stuff in those newsletters, but it is hard to find it if you don't know exactly what article and issue you are looking for.
Actually, I think it is related. However, the concept I envision is to eliminate "searching" Those articles can be edited to the standard format & placed appropriately in the index, without changing the essence of the article.

It is a big job, but not something that must be done all at once. It is part of the facelift needed on the Registry website and would be an advancement of accuracy & simplicity.

[MikeGolf]

Jerry, I like your outline but anything outside of stock maintenance would be subjective it would have to be generalized or based off of proven methods. Everyone would have an opion on which spark plug or oil is best. That is what is wrong with "wiki". So more than one article per subject may have to be written. Some people think you should use one sealant vs another.

[DaveK]

A wiki does not necessarily mean open access to editing. They can be set up to give varying levels to allow only 'authorized' accounts the ability to edit. This can avoid the 'clutter' normally associated with forum posts. You can also set them up so that any changes have to be authorized explicitly by the wiki admin (or another account).

On another point entirely, I'd be happy to 'donate' my writing skills, such as they are, to help put articles together and so on. I'm not the most technically knowledgeable, but I can usually manage to throw a few sentences together! :)

[Kevin]

speaking of wiki's here one that I found very helpful http://straightrazorplace.com/srpwiki/index.php/Straight_Razor_Place_Wiki perhaps we could use it as an example if we decide to go that way

[jcruz]

I like the idea of standardized, authoritative tech data & procedures, beyond what's already in the forum. I also like the idea that the content would be for members only.

I'm pretty junior league when it comes to car tech, but like DaveK, I'd be happy to assist in writing/assembling articles if needed. I'm also a web developer and could help to develop any web applications that might be beneficial.

John

[FU]

That's mighty kind of you to offer John :handshak:

[A26B]

Jerry, I like your outline but anything outside of stock maintenance would be subjective it would have to be generalized or based off of proven methods. Everyone would have an opion on which spark plug or oil is best. That is what is wrong with "wiki". So more than one article per subject may have to be written. Some people think you should use one sealant vs another.

Mike,
You are correct regarding the subjective nature of plugs, sealants, injector brands, etc. Personally, I never envisioned that type of content in the proposed tech data articles. Specifications for Sealants and Adhesives as exampled, would refer to the same as specified in the Service manual for Loctite & Permabond. Use of alternatives would be best left to personal choice.

I am adament about one article per procedure, although some may overlap, such as "Fuel Injector R&R, Coils & Wires R&R and Starter R&R, etc.. I do however, believe each one of those example R&R's should include the complete process and could make use of the applicable section(s) in the others to maintain consistency.

Given my Marine history, I'm a "little" OCD about consistency, order & organization. Before any tech articles are written, it may be a good idea to develop a style & format template. Regarding the organization, we might consider a committee to establish the style & format, then prepare a couple of tech articles as examples. Then, Members desiring to help could choose a title from the outline/index and have good examples to follow.

The key here would be to not get caught up in pride of authorship so the articles submitted to the committee could be edited if necessary and not offend the author. :salute:

[A26B]

A wiki does not necessarily mean open access to editing. ............ You can also set them up so that any changes have to be authorized explicitly by the wiki admin (or another account).
Now that's what I'm taking about. Wiki admin aka committee (per my previous post)

On another point entirely, I'd be happy to 'donate' my writing skills, such as they are, to help put articles together and so on. I'm not the most technically knowledgeable, but I can usually manage to throw a few sentences together! :)

Outstanding! If this continues to develop, you may be able to just pick a topic from the outline/index and get after it! Thanks for the offer.

[A26B]

I like the idea of standardized, authoritative tech data & procedures, beyond what's already in the forum. I also like the idea that the content would be for members only.

Thanks for the support.

I'm pretty junior league when it comes to car tech, but like DaveK, I'd be happy to assist in writing/assembling articles if needed. I'm also a web developer and could help to develop any web applications that might be beneficial.

John

Thanks again!! I don't know squat about web development, but if we could work on a "plug n play" that could be inserted in the Registry home site, we might be able to beta test it and get it up to speed a little bit without having to pester "Mom" about making modifications all the time.

[A26B]

FWIW, my involvement wold be purely from an advisory consultant, if needed at all. I never considered being a part of the panel/committee. We have some really great talent available in the Registry and a strong willingness to work for the benefit of all ZR-1owners. You guys really make me proud of you!:salute:

[Aurora40]

I do not concur with the idea of a "wiki" with free access by the members. Suggestions for modifications, YES. Free access is what has made many of the forum tech articles "cluttered" and in some cases wrong & misleading.
To me, the opposite is what makes the forum cluttered and misleading. If someone starts a thread on an issue that becomes the standard/sticky/most found thread, it will likely have great info in it. But that info won't necessarily be all in the original post.

Someone posts info that maybe was correct at once, or wasn't totally correct. People post in the thread with corrections, but the original post is unchanged. If you want the full/latest info, you have to read the whole thing and "merge" all the info together yourself.

The reason for this is that no one except the thread starter can modify the opening post. So others who realize the info is wrong, or down the road realize the info has changed with the passing of time, can not update or correct the opening post. They can only post a reply down at the bottom for people to mentally merge.

With a wiki, it is more self-policing. Someone doesn't have to constantly check to make sure all articles are up-to-date. Anyone reading the article can fix it when they realize some section of it is old or no longer relevant/correct.

They do have histories, and they can have restrictions. They also can have "discussion" pages to discuss aspects of the article that people disagree with, without modifying the actual content. Though that probably wouldn't be necessary.


You will have to help me with this.... not sure I understand. Can you elaborate a bit?

All I mean is if it's not wiki-like, you don't have to authenticate specific people. It's just some links/pages just like (but cleaner than) the current Maintenance section. People would use the shared "member" auth info just like they do today.

[ZZZZZR1]

I would suggest that the proposed tech data section (or whatever we ultimately call it) replace the existing Registry maintenance section. I do NOT recommend another similar section.


A member asked what the above statement means...

Jerry was not reffering to replacing the technical postings on the forum, but the maintenance section on the front page of the website (http://www.zr1netregistry.com/ZR1_tech_tips.htm).

:cheers:

David

[ZZZZZR1]

Where is the maintenance section on the forum?

I meant technical postings. :)

[Kevin]

I still don't see why this is such a big issue, registry members deserve to have a little extra benefit for paying dues.

[Kevin]

I concur but just for the benefit of understanding exactly what the perk is and what is no longer free.

How do you understand it Kevin? Are they talking of eliminating the ZR1netregistry.com maintenance section in your view and making it Paid Members only?

hasn't jerry made it clear that his plan was to leave the current "solutions" thread as is and put stream lined threads and updates in the members only section? It could either be on here or http://www.zr1netregistry.com/members.htm

[Kevin]

No....:p

I am taking about the ZR1netregistry.com Maintenance section (Not Solutions). Is Jerry suggesting replacing that ZR1netregistry.com Maintenance section with his New Registry Tech Data Section (here or there)?

I don't care, I'm just tired of the bickering

[IowaZR-1]

I still don't see why this is such a big issue, registry members deserve to have a little extra benefit for paying dues.
I've watched this tread since it's begining and think it's time I gave my 2 cents worth.....take or leave it....just my thoughts. Lets say a no-registry member shares something for the "Tech Data" section and it gets "locked" away for only paying members, what benefit has he gained in sharing his knowledge or experience? Only the good feeling of sharing with other with nothing in return! A nice guy in my book...the registry members...kinda greedy. Another situation....someone is looking at purchasing a ZR-1 and doing all his research (face we all still like to do our homework) and finds the "Tech Data" section "locked" to members only, how does that effect his purchase? Everyone is different and who knows it might effect the sale of a members Z in the future. Is the "Brotherhood of the Beast" all about paying for knowledge others have gained? I agree membership keeps us going and there should be something to gain from being one, but paying for other's knowledge and experiences shouldn't be one. Why not give paying members a discount to Tires Direct or GM parts(I know GM doesn't make anything anymore for our Z's) or something like that? Many of you use the phrase from Doug Johnson...."it's not the car..it's the people'' is this really the case with the "members only Tech Data"..is it the car?....is it the people?..or is it Money?


Thanks to all have served our country and given us all the freedom to express our thoughts freely in this great country! :Eagle:

[ZZZZZR1]

Cliff,

You keep deleting posts my friend....

Nobody is talking about deleting or taking away "free tech data or forum sections" (except you), but adding something to the members only section.


Those free sections of the clubs site are what makes this club so great!

:cheers:

David

[Paul Workman]

A word about advantages of formal course development...

A driver at a crossroads gas station - stops to ask for directions: "I'm lost. Which road should I take?"
Old man, sitting in a rocker: "Where ya headed?"
Driver: "I'm not sure. I don't really know."
Old man: "Then it really doesn't matter which way you go!"

The same can be said about tech writing: if there is no defined goal or outcome, then organization isn't important and if there is a positive outcome, it is in spite of the organization, not because of it...

There are two general approaches to course prep:

General knowledge
or
"Outcome-based"

Virtually everyone here is very familiar with the "General Knowledge" approach. General knowledge approach is what we all were immersed in during our school years. We wrote reports, we learned outlining, and the goal was usually focused on edification for edification sake...which was fine, far as it went. Success was typically in the form of a "grade": you get an A, B, C, D, or F, depending on how much/well the lesson was leaned.

The "OUTCOME" approach is entirely different, and so too is the organization of the (lesson) information! When I went to school we could take "shop". The "final test" might be - "build a bookcase". Everything learned from conceptualizing, to making a mechanical drawing, to materials and tools, etc, etc, was specifically focused on accomplishing the goal - the bookcase. In the end, there was no ABCDF...You either built the bookcase or you didn't, and THAT was the measure of success - the "final" test! ALL of information has a reason to be there, and has a desired result: what is a mechanical drawing? How does it help me (build the bookcase, etc? (Too bad "shop" isn't offered in many schools. It taught goal oriented learning and organization - applicable to many (e.g.,LT5) aspects.)

My points are these: Obviously, there are many like me here with a desire to have an organized, comprehensive treatment of all things ZR-1. And, I would favor an outcome-based format where all topics within are individually developed, to fit like pieces of a puzzle in the general scope of the desired product.

Bottom line? I've been involved in Instructional Systems Design and it's derivatives for a couple decades. I've written volumes of of tech manuals and "leader's guides" for stand-up technical trainers, conducted seminars here and abroad, and have done stand-up training:blahblah::blahblah: All that to say - my hand is up to offer whatever meager input I can should we (as members of the Registry brotherhood) want to organize the collective expertise and experience of the many SMEs (i.e., Subject Matter Experts) into a formal "how to" (document). My thoughts are that much of the material could be web-based, for example, but certainly the endeavor would need to take advantage of ALL the appropriate media, including video, audio, text, stills, interactive, etc, etc. designed to produce a specific outcome.

This is a big undertaking. But, as Confucius said, "The longest journey begins with a single step."

Well... I have no financial interest in such an undertaking, and I'm not a board member, or have any sway in what may or may not be the direction (if any) this endeavor might take. I take no issue with anything already in existence or constructive and objective discussion here. My take is that what Jerry (correct me if I'm wrong) proposes is an enhancement for paid members, without necessarily changing anything in the public side of the forum. But, make no mistake! There's real expense involved here!! Such an undertaking is huge. It will require a lot of work by several individuals and use of their time. The media used has real $$ involved, e.g., video equipment, video processing, software, etc, etc. Therefore, (at this time) I see no problem excluding such a work to paid membership.

If we're at a crossroads, which way do we go?

P.

[tomtom72]

Paul,

What is in the maintenance tab over at the zr1netregistry site will remain open to the general public the way it is now? See I think it is important that that info remain open to the public as a diplomatic effort to attract new buyers to our paid membership. Okay it's viewed by me as a come on or a teaser of what you get if you join us. :o

Then maybe the new buyers make their way over to our forum and see our solutions sticky and get really juiced. They read our Technical section with all the threads and figure "Okay, if I buy this car I can get help, for free, if it breaks." Then they usually figure out all the free stuff isn't free so they join to support the free stuff.

Next the noob figures out that there is something about the inner workings of an LT5 that is not exactly straight up obvious....(okay, that is me. I didn't know what it was I didn't know, but I had a bad feeling that there is something out there that if you don't know it disaster will be following shortly.) If a backyard guy like me can figure out that there is something out past the edges any one can figure it out. The benefit of becoming a paid member will be access to that knowledge.

I'm sorry to be so passionate about the info over at the public side of the zr1netregistry site.:o I just feel it is the most valuable first impression recruitment advertisement we as a registry have in public view. Heck, I still search that tab when stuff happens on my car. Then our forum sells itself and hopefully the advantages of a paid membership in our registry. Okay I'm naive in my thinking, I admit that. I just feel some of the accumulated ZR-1/LT5 knowledge is best left in the public view as we now have it in the public view. Sorry for beating a dead horse, but I think there maybe a bit of confusion between what's on our zr1netregistry site and what's on our forum that non ZR1netregistry members have access to read.

:o
Tom

[Aurora40]

I guess I have two more cents...

Nowhere have I seen it suggested that the forum will change. The idea someone will submit some information, and it will get locked away is absurd. If they post it on the forum, it would still be here. If they post a complete article with photos and such to the Registry, and say "place this in the members-only comprehensive maintenance section", they shouldn't be shocked when it is placed there. So let's drop some of these absurd arguments about theft or money (no one is getting paid) and whatnot.

Tom, you are saying the existing stuff should be left there? To me, that stuff sucks. The organization of it sucks, the info is old, and it is hard to find in the first place. If I saw that and thought "this is a taste", I'd think hard about whether I want to pay for the meal. I would be interested to see usage numbers on it. How many times a day/week/month are those specific pages requested? My guess is hardly at all, though I'm prepared to be wrong (and would love to know either way).

To replace it will take time and effort. Should that time and effort be made public, or a perk to members? I think a perk, but can see how reasonable people could disagree.

[Paul Workman]

Paul,

What is in the maintenance tab over at the zr1netregistry site will remain open to the general public the way it is now? See I think it is important that that info remain open to the public as a diplomatic effort to attract new buyers to our paid membership. Okay it's viewed by me as a come on or a teaser of what you get if you join us. :o

Then maybe the new buyers make their way over to our forum and see our solutions sticky and get really juiced. They read our Technical section with all the threads and figure "Okay, if I buy this car I can get help, for free, if it breaks." Then they usually figure out all the free stuff isn't free so they join to support the free stuff.

Next the noob figures out that there is something about the inner workings of an LT5 that is not exactly straight up obvious....(okay, that is me. I didn't know what it was I didn't know, but I had a bad feeling that there is something out there that if you don't know it disaster will be following shortly.) If a backyard guy like me can figure out that there is something out past the edges any one can figure it out. The benefit of becoming a paid member will be access to that knowledge.

I'm sorry to be so passionate about the info over at the public side of the zr1netregistry site.:o I just feel it is the most valuable first impression recruitment advertisement we as a registry have in public view. Heck, I still search that tab when stuff happens on my car. Then our forum sells itself and hopefully the advantages of a paid membership in our registry. Okay I'm naive in my thinking, I admit that. I just feel some of the accumulated ZR-1/LT5 knowledge is best left in the public view as we now have it in the public view. Sorry for beating a dead horse, but I think there maybe a bit of confusion between what's on our zr1netregistry site and what's on our forum that non ZR1netregistry members have access to read.

:o
Tom

Tom, I think we're in violent agreement!:)

To B clear: For all the reasons you (and others) have stated, change not a damn thing on the open forum...PERIOD. Within the MEMBERS ONLY... some special, polished, reconstituted treatments...might be a nice perk...is my thoughts. But! Honestly, I don't have strong feelings one way or the other, with regard to access being open to the GP, or members only. I guess it would depend on final format and resources needed to buildwhateveritiswearetyingtodohere yaknowwhatImean?

My head hurts. It's Saturday. I feel the need for SPEED. Must be something I need to do on one of the few nice days left of the season, no?

:cheers:

P.

[Kevin]

A nice guy in my book...the registry members...kinda greedy.

explain this please? what's wrong with leaving it here and posting it somewhere that's members only that can be updated more regularly and without clutter. When I wrote the power key fix I wasn't a paying member of the registry and I wouldn't have cared if it was copied somewhere that was members only as long as it stayed here so that everyone could see it. I don't think anyone is trying to take away the solutions or tech section on this site which I feel should always be free. To me, there's the registry, and the net. The net has always been free and should remain so. The registry has always had a cost associated with it, from Larry's to Clint's to this one, and should always be so. I think the problem here is that people are viewing the two as one and they aren't. This is why I was against the combining of the names back when discussion about it came up, just to keep them separate.

[Aurora40]

First I would say what Bob said about the ZR1netregistry.com Maintenance section is almost exactly what Jerry said about Solutions http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?p=123365&post123365

So you both (Jerry and Bob) think the same about the ZR1netregistry.com Maintenance section as Jerry thinks about Solutions. Now does everyone make the CONNECTION ;)

I don't get the connection at all.

1) No one is talking about changing the forum that I've seen
2) Everything isn't about your "Solutions" thread
3) You made the thread in the forum, you can make it any way you want. If someone else thinks it is hard to follow, tell them to suck it. They can make their own thread, or compile the information any way they prefer. You did the work, you can make it your way.

[Kevin]

Click on this and tell me if it is free. http://www.zr1netregistry.com/

There is a members only section in the top task bar. Forget that for a moment.

Click on the Maintenance in the left column and tell me if it is free. You should now be seeing ZR-1 Maintenance Tips. In the left column you will now see

ZR-1 How To http://www.zr1netregistry.com/ZR1_howto.htm
Troubleshooting http://www.zr1netregistry.com/ZR1_troubleshooting.htm

hum, the first interesting link I saw on there is dead....


Don't take this so personally cliff. all we're trying to do is help keep these cars on the road, kinda like I did when I helped get your parts back

[ZZZZZR1]

Cliff

I can say with all certainty, the forum and website info areas will remain free to all members / non members. Let me add that this was never discussed and this drama was not needed or wanted

Let's move forward.....

Cheers

David

[IowaZR-1]

explain this please? what's wrong with leaving it here and posting it somewhere that's members only that can be updated more regularly and without clutter.
Let me see if I understand what you are saying....post it here and somewhere only members have access to and can update it regularly there. The original person posting if a non-member is left out in the cold as to access to any updates posted by the members. Kinda like a non-member saying I figured out how to solve Rubic's cube in 3 minutes.....but a member replies....I can do it in 30 seconds.....but it's posted on the members only section.....got to pay(or become a member....same thing) if you want to know how. I see this everyday in the work I'm into.....there's tech service given freely and tech service you have to pay for. There is so much difference in the two....the one given freely actually care about solving your problem and you develop a relationship with them where the other's have the meter running just like a taxi taking you for a ride, once you're there, out you go and you're forgotten. I'd like to think we all have a common interest in solving each other's problems.

[Kevin]

snip
Thanks guys,
Cliff

no it's not members only, it links to CAC and the link is dead.

[Z Factor]

The forum is not changing, no one is getting banned, so lets stop the drama as this is not the Oprah show and this was old a while back.

[tomtom72]

Bob, I accept your view of the maintenance section over at the zr1netregistry site as clunky and old. As someone that never owned a C4 till I bought my car it was valuable to me as a learning tool to get me back into the car hobby. I left for awhile to play with boats so I lost a lot of my skills thru lack of use. I admit that people like me are in a very small minority; was in the hobby, left and then came back and needed a reeducation or remedial course. I was just too far behind the curve for what I bought & was fairly anxious early on in my ownership. I still use that section for answers or direction.

:o I read my posts again and it makes me want to apologize to you and all of our members for my coming across as obtuse & combative. It was not my intention. :o

:cheers:
Tom

[Aurora40]

I read my posts again and it makes me want to apologize to you and all of our members for my coming across as obtuse & combative.
It certainly did not come across that way to me. You were just sharing your opinion and experience, no apology seems necessary for that. :cheers:

I would be interested to know the page views on those help articles. You found them useful, I wonder if lots of others do as well.

[tomtom72]

Bob, thanks for being understanding of my intentions!:thumbsup:

Yes, it would be interesting to see the view rate. It could very well be that only new C4 owners find them a good place to start learning about what they just bought? I doubt that if a person stayed active in the car hobby that they would need the remedial help though. I just stopped doing my own car maintenance all the while I was into boats & had my own business to run. Add in that the last corvette was a C3 ( 72 ) and my new corvette was a bit different to say the least from my view point anyway.

:cheers:
Tom

[Hammer]

The forum is not changing, no one is getting banned, so lets stop the drama as this is not the Oprah show and this was old a while back.

You could lock this thread down and no one would miss it. Also, I think Jerry's idea of moving it was a good one. JMHO

[a1991zr1]

:cheers:You could lock this thread down and no one would miss it. Also, I think Jerry's idea of moving it was a good one. JMHOThank you for leaving the site the way it is. I have inherited my fathers ZR-1 and the info here and tech talk has helped me deal with my ptsd. I am a disabled combat veteran, who has found a little bit of joy reading all the material and knowledge that everyone seems to bring to the forum. However knowledge is not gained it is shared and I believe that knowledge should never be limited to a member only thread. This seems to go against what the founders and developers of this site created. I know I am new here but again I have finally found some joy in life and it was because the site is free. I pay enough membership dues and fees in life, I would hope not to add yet another.:proud:

[Hammer]

:cheers:Thank you for leaving the site the way it is. I have inherited my fathers ZR-1 and the info here and tech talk has helped me deal with my ptsd. I am a disabled combat veteran, who has found a little bit of joy reading all the material and knowledge that everyone seems to bring to the forum. However knowledge is not gained it is shared and I believe that knowledge should never be limited to a member only thread. This seems to go against what the founders and developers of this site created. I know I am new here but again I have finally found some joy in life and it was because the site is free. I pay enough membership dues and fees in life, I would hope not to add yet another.:proud:

I was wrong and apologize for that. See my next post.

[Hammer]

For any of you who use, or might care to use ANY of the Maintenance Section (or anything in that catagory on the Registry main website for that matter), I would highly suggest you copy everything into WORD if you don't plan on renewing or getting a membership 'cause from everything I've read here I am sure it IS going away eventually. JMO

[A26B]

For any of you who use, or might care to use ANY of the Maintenance Section (or anything in that catagory on the Registry main website for that matter), I would highly suggest you copy everything into WORD if you don't plan on renewing or getting a membership 'cause from everything I've read here I am sure it IS going away eventually. JMO

John,
You are completely mistaken. Everything in this thread is simply a conversation exchanging thoughts and ideas. It is NOT policy or even a proposed policy. Please do not make more out of it than it really is.
Thanks,

[Z Factor]

We are all adults here, so lets start acting like it. I've tried to reason with people like adults, but apparently I will need to speak to some like children.

The next post in this thread that is off the topic will be met with consequences.

[Hammer]

John,
You are completely mistaken. Everything in this thread is simply a conversation exchanging thoughts and ideas. It is NOT policy or even a proposed policy. Please do not make more out of it than it really is.
Thanks,

Jerry,

How can I be completely mistaken when you stated the following in post #34:

"I would suggest that the proposed tech data section (or whatever we ultimately call it) replace the existing Registry maintenance section. I do NOT recommend another similar section."
Call it what you will, replace is replace. A policy may not be in place right now, and this may only be a suggestion, and you may have made a recommendation, but the way the Board is run, all it takes is a motion and a second and it becomes policy.

I think I am on topic as I made a suggestion to members of this forum about the current maintenance section on the website. I also suggested moving this thread a long time ago since this topic was about "...Members Only" and what they thought.

A revised statement from you and other Board members would go a long way. I don't mean a statement that says I am not reading this correctly, but one that states something like, "I/we was/were wrong, the Maintenance Section on the website will not be changed or removed in any way, shape or form."

[QB93Z]

The Mission of the ZR-1 Net Registry is to connect ZR-1 enthusiasts from all over the world to share facts and information, to seek out technical help, and to just "talk" about this truly "World Class" automobile.

Nothing that has been written or said by any Board member in any way diminishes our support tor the ZR-1 Community.

This thread is closed.

Jim Voter