Serp belt drive noise?

[Rex Ruby]

Engine was making a bad sounding noise from the front end, almost like something wrong with a cam chain. Removed the serp belt and fortunately no noise!

So I'm guessing it's something that's driven by the serp belt. Seemed like maybe the tensioner. However a few months ago I replaced the alternator could that have gone bad already? (I've had my share of new replacement parts fail in short time). The tensioner wheel is not quiet when I turn it but not so bad you'd say that it is bad. Do they still make the tensioner?

Any ideas/suggestions on how to proceed with the troubleshooting?

[A26B]

If you need an entire tensioner assembly, let me know.

[Rex Ruby]

If you need an entire tensioner assembly, let me know.

Do they come in parts or pieces?
How much?

[Brillo1990]

Engine was making a bad sounding noise from the front end, almost like something wrong with a cam chain. Removed the serp belt and fortunately no noise!

So I'm guessing it's something that's driven by the serp belt. Seemed like maybe the tensioner. However a few months ago I replaced the alternator could that have gone bad already? (I've had my share of new replacement parts fail in short time). The tensioner wheel is not quiet when I turn it but not so bad you'd say that it is bad. Do they still make the tensioner?

Any ideas/suggestions on how to proceed with the troubleshooting?
If the tensioner makes any noise at all it's more than likely thats the problem.

[tomtom72]

Do they come in parts or pieces?
How much?

I don't remember the price but I've seen the pulley and I figure it comes with the bearing at autozone and even on e-bay.

[-=Jeff=-]

yes the pulley comes with the bearing. The pulley should make no noise.

I had a noise on mine a couple years ago, thought it was the tensioner, ended up being the Water Pump

you can hear the noise in this clip

http://vettextc.net/jeff/misc/0729091838a.mp4

[QB93Z]

I have a used original tensioner that came off a take-out motor. You are welcome to use it for trouble-shooting if you like. I would be glad to ship it to you if you want to give it a try.

Jim

[todesengel]

I have a used original tensioner that came off a take-out motor. You are welcome to use it for trouble-shooting if you like. I would be glad to ship it to you if you want to give it a try.

Jim

awesome offer, made me smile.

[tccrab]

I have a used original tensioner that came off a take-out motor. You are welcome to use it for trouble-shooting if you like. I would be glad to ship it to you if you want to give it a try.

Jim


Posts like this tell me that "The Brotherhood of the Beast" is alive and well.
=D>


TomC
'Crabs

[Brillo1990]

:thumbsup:

[Rex Ruby]

I have a used original tensioner that came off a take-out motor. You are welcome to use it for trouble-shooting if you like. I would be glad to ship it to you if you want to give it a try.

Jim

Awesome offer, I was quoted $15 for the pulley and bearing locally but availability maybe a problem, I'll let you know, THANKS!

[A26B]

Do they come in parts or pieces?
How much?

John,
Sorry to be so slow to reply to your question.

Tensioner assembly comes with the pulley.

You can also purchase just the pulley w/bearing.

I will have some NOS tensioners and also some NOS pulleys in the next week (I hope).

Once they are in, I will put the NOS tensioner assy on special for 5 days at the old price of $145.00 + Shipping. Afterwards, the price will be $156.00.

NOS pulleys will be $20.00 special pricing for 5 days, then $24.00, + shipping.

[Paul Workman]

I bought a tensioner pully/bearing for an LT1 that has worked just fine, FWIW.

As for the source of the sound, I bought one of those mechanic stethoscopes which resulted in me changing the tensioner, AND the PS pump:censored: before Marc H showed me how by removing the metal probe and diaphragm from the stethoscope and just using the rubber hose to probe the noise you could better isolate the source. It turned out to be the water pump.

P.

[Rex Ruby]

Got a new pulley installed, put the serp belt on and still have the same noise.
Sounds like the alternator, definitely coming from that side but hard to pin point.
Going to put my old alternator in and see if it's the alternator and go from there.

[QB93Z]

It sounds like you are proceeding in a very deliberate trouble shooting method. Good luck.

Jim

[GOLDCYLON]

Got a new pulley installed, put the serp belt on and still have the same noise.
Sounds like the alternator, definitely coming from that side but hard to pin point.
Going to put my old alternator in and see if it's the alternator and go from there.


Get your old alternator rebuilt first would be my suggestion. You where going to go there anyway. This way its done in One. GC

[-=Jeff=-]

can you record and post a short video of the noise?

[GOLDCYLON]

can you record and post a short video of the noise?

Return of the waterpump noise your thinking Jeff?

[-=Jeff=-]

Return of the waterpump noise your thinking Jeff?

Could be,

As per my video, that vibration noise was the Water pump. found out after swapping the tensioner pulley, then the whole tensioner.

2 months after that I had a bird (chirp) under the hood.. this time it was the Alt.

I would hate to see him swap the Alt. to find it is the WP. I figured another few sets of ears on the noise might help him find swapping a bunch of parts

[Paul Workman]

Could be,

As per my video, that vibration noise was the Water pump. found out after swapping the tensioner pulley, then the whole tensioner.

2 months after that I had a bird (chirp) under the hood.. this time it was the Alt.

I would hate to see him swap the Alt. to find it is the WP. I figured another few sets of ears on the noise might help him find swapping a bunch of parts

I guess we've been down this path before. As I said, I thought it was the tensioner, then moved onto the PS pump...nada...and was looking (with a jaundice eye) at the alt next. How some ever, Marc H was good enough to lend me his ear, and correctly diagnosed the water pump.


Handy tip:
As for bird chirps, it can sometimes be the serp belt. To eliminate that possibility, spritz the underside of the belt (sparingly) with water or Windex while the engine is running. If it immediately quiets the chirping, then the belt is the guilty party.

FWIW,

P.

[Rex Ruby]

I'll post a vid a little later this evening!

[ittlfly]

I guess we've been down this path before. As I said, I thought it was the tensioner, then moved onto the PS pump...nada...and was looking (with a jaundice eye) at the alt next. How some ever, Marc H was good enough to lend me his ear, and correctly diagnosed the water pump.


Handy tip:
As for bird chirps, it can sometimes be the serp belt. To eliminate that possibility, spritz the underside of the belt (sparingly) with water or Windex while the engine is running. If it immediately quiets the chirping, then the belt is the guilty party.

FWIW,

P.

FWIW...candle wax will also work the same but will just last a bit longer. I used to do that trick on my "V" belt on my old Datusn B-210.

[Rex Ruby]

Here's the video, what do you think?

http://entertainment.webshots.com/video/3075530000034327257iuVjBd

[-=Jeff=-]

When you removed the belt how did re alternator pulley spin/feel. I am almost thinking that could be the WP

[Rex Ruby]

It felt a little questionable kind of like the tensioner did (and that wasn't bad!).

Sound is coming from the pass side front, right at the alternator, at least that what it seems like.

[-=Jeff=-]

Well you could install your other alt to see if the noise cures itself, also with the belt off, try to check for play on the WP pulley..

it sounds like an impeller or fan is scraping on something..

[Rex Ruby]

Well you could install your other alt to see if the noise cures itself, also with the belt off, try to check for play on the WP pulley..

it sounds like an impeller or fan is scraping on something..

Great minds think a like:-D
I'd hate to install a new water pump and it be the alt.
I have the old alt so I think it makes sense to confirm or eliminate it.
Was thinking too, to check the WP for play when the belt comes off!

Do we have a water pump procedure on ZR1 net?
Just to do a little learning and prep.

[-=Jeff=-]

For R&R be sure you have the new pump, when you take a bolt out, put in the hole/location on the new pump, once the old pump is out move bolts to old pump and then install new

I was able to R&R the WP by removing the Air Horn and Tensioner

[Brillo1990]

Sounds just like a alternator I changed one time on a car, I think the high pitch is from the fan (or whatever you want to call it) amplifiying the noise. It sounds like it's rubbing from a bearing being out causing end play on the armature.

[GOLDCYLON]

For R&R be sure you have the new pump, when you take a bolt out, put in the hole/location on the new pump, once the old pump is out move bolts to old pump and then install new

I was able to R&R the WP by removing the Air Horn and Tensioner

I was able to do the same. I did the same thing for bolt placement as there are 4 or 5 different sizes so its important to keep track of those. John is there any flickering on the IP? It sure sounds like and alt fin binding or scraping? If its the WP thats the worst I have ever heard. My money would be on the alt. Whatever you do think about new hoses and belt replacement its the time to do it. If you go the WP route clean out the radiator while you are there. Its a PITA but turn it into a general maint project and take care of the rest while you are there. GC

[ittlfly]

John, did you spin up the alt with a socket on the end of a drill yet? It sure worked for me in diagnosing my last alt problem. As bad as that nosie is it should be easy to hear.

[Rex Ruby]

Well I couldn't get a socket with a drill on it, too much in the way.
So I came up with the idea of getting a heavy rubber band and using that as a mini fan belt on the drill. Barely heard maybe a noise when I did this to the alt. Tried to use a belt I had from my snow blower, wrapped it around the WP and it almost but not quite worked. So I decided to proceed with R&R the alt. About half way out I notice this:
http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/14608/2864681670034327257S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2864681670034327257BBXSEJ)

Checked the underside of the air horn and saw this (excuse the poor pic, old shakey hands)
http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/42768/2631587740034327257S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2631587740034327257ffqbww)

So a bent fan is the culprit. Now what to do. Could it have flexed that bad being exposed to some high RPMs? When I installed this alt last Aug I thought the "fan" looked cheaper than the orig. I'm almost afraid to warranty it, the "fan" will be the same flimsy crap. The original one fits on the replacement alt. Now there's always something, the orig pulley is slightly larger, which pulley would you put on?

Broke the *##%** tab on the big connector to the alt, epoxied it back on looks like it worked, always some BS! I must be getting old I don't remember having to take all this off the do the alt back in August! Here how she's sitting until tomorrow evening:
http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/45619/2018932030034327257S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2018932030034327257phucXU)

[tomtom72]

isn't it a shame when you pay for parts & you can't even rely on the stuff being accurate!

Something don't add up here John. Check the diameters of both fans as it don't make sense that the replacement should hit the A/Horn. Or at least it don't make sense to me if the part is "by application" in the parts book. Is there a way to put the alternator in too high? That's another way the fan could hit the A/Horn.

You want to borrow a ZR-1 alternator? I bought Dom's alternator from his part out. I know it's an LT5 alternator. If you know a good rebuilder that can be trusted you can use my spare, have your OE one rebuilt and then have my spare rebuilt & I'll pay you. I can deliver it too!:)

:cheers:
Tom

[-=Jeff=-]

Well you could install your other alt to see if the noise cures itself, also with the belt off, try to check for play on the WP pulley..

it sounds like an impeller or fan is scraping on something..


See, I knew that sound at least.. LOL

[GOLDCYLON]

It sure sounds like and alt fin binding or scraping? If its the WP thats the worst I have ever heard. My money would be on the alt.GC

Looks like we both called it Jeff

[GOLDCYLON]

isn't it a shame when you pay for parts & you can't even rely on the stuff being accurate!

Something don't add up here John. Check the diameters of both fans as it don't make sense that the replacement should hit the A/Horn. Or at least it don't make sense to me if the part is "by application" in the parts book. Is there a way to put the alternator in too high? That's another way the fan could hit the A/Horn.

You want to borrow a ZR-1 alternator? I bought Dom's alternator from his part out. I know it's an LT5 alternator. If you know a good rebuilder that can be trusted you can use my spare, have your OE one rebuilt and then have my spare rebuilt & I'll pay you. I can deliver it too!:)

:cheers:
Tom


Tom I dont think he needs one

Got a new pulley installed, put the serp belt on and still have the same noise.
Sounds like the alternator, definitely coming from that side but hard to pin point.
Going to put my old alternator in and see if it's the alternator and go from there.

In Post 16 I suggested


Get your old alternator rebuilt first would be my suggestion. You where going to go there anyway. This way its done in One. GC


The good news story is you figured it out!!!

[GOLDCYLON]

Broke the *##%** tab on the big connector to the alt, epoxied it back on looks like it worked, always some BS!


Dont feel bad. Your dealing with 21 year old harnessing. When I R&Red my alterator I broke the battery lead. Why? Because the back stud and nut broke and was spinning inside the alternator. You want to talk about some *##%##" I still need to get that alternator rebuilt.

[z proud]

John,

I also have a used alt if you need one to use, have the gaskets if u need them for the air horn, or TB

I will PM, you my cell# if you need anything,,,,,,,I only have 4 bins of spare parts
:handshak:

[Rex Ruby]

John,

I also have a used alt if you need one to use, have the gaskets if u need them for the air horn, or TB

I will PM, you my cell# if you need anything,,,,,,,I only have 4 bins of spare parts
:handshak:

Thanks Bill, I think I have everything I need to put it back together.
Tomorrow or Saturday I'll get it done and report the results:-D

[Rex Ruby]

Got everything back together BUT
broke what I assume is the oil sending unit.

It's about 2.5" long, 3/4" dia, has a wire connection and is between the alt and oil filter.
Screws into the base thats part of the oil filter mount.

Any idea who stocks these sending units?

[ittlfly]

Yep, broke mine too when I R&R'ed my alt. It is the oil pressor sensor. I got a replacment at O' Reilly's. Their part # S4088. You will need to buy a sensor socket as I found out. Even my deep impact socket wasn't long enough to install the new sensor.

[Rex Ruby]

I don't feel so bad knowing someone else broke the same thing!
Wish there was an O'Reillys closer than 3 hours away from me!
Going to try to get one tomorrow, if not I know I can get one early this week.
I want to get back up and running to give me some time to make sure all is OK before BG!

[GOLDCYLON]

Got everything back together BUT
broke what I assume is the oil sending unit.

It's about 2.5" long, 3/4" dia, has a wire connection and is between the alt and oil filter.
Screws into the base thats part of the oil filter mount.

Any idea who stocks these sending units?

Oriellys and Autozone there are about 3 or 4 compatable numbers. You will need a special socket to get it off and on. Depending on the replacement you may need two Special sockets. One sorter than the other.

[ittlfly]

Oriellys and Autozone there are about 3 or 4 compatable numbers. You will need a special socket to get it off and on. Depending on the replacement you may need two Special sockets. One sorter than the other.

Once it was broken, I used an adjustable cresent wrench to remove it. Installing the new one though required that "special" socket. All it is just a 1-1/8" very, very deep socket.

BTW..here are some more part #'s for the oil pressure sensor thanks to Scott Fabre

Gen: OP24471
Niehoff: DR4010

[Rex Ruby]

Got it at Pep Boys today along with the socket.
All done and buttoned up.

Noise fixed with the replacement of the alt fan blades impeller whatever it called!

[VetteMed]

Glad you got it all squared away!

[GOLDCYLON]

Good news.

[ittlfly]

I't's great when a plan comes together. :cheers:

[Rex Ruby]

Thanks for everyone's help and support!

PepBoys part:
Manufacturer BWD
PN# S4088