Cannot clear SIR lights (seat belt and INFL REST)

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Hey folks,

I posted this message in the ListServer, but we have some smart folks here too so I'll figured I better post here too. I did my final preps to ship the vehicle to Japan tomorrow morning, but have not been able to resolve this issue as of yet.

Thanks,

Craig


I have a 90 MY with the famous seat belt and INFL REST lights on. Assuming it was grounding issues for sensors when I pulled the motor last year for rebuild and cleaned up the frame, that was double checked and cleaned up and I think it was addressed.

So in attempts to clear the code and lights with the information found in FSM and different forums, I tried to ground the Cavity K or ALDL with ground and A cavity, but neither did anything to diagnose or allow clearing the codes.

The only thing that happens is once the ignition is turned on the INFL REST light comes on, then will flash one time a few seconds later and that is it.
Doing all the 3 second intervals of off and on, etc. does nothing since it does not even seems to go into diagnostic mode.

I also have the ALDL Diagnostic Ground Tool for 1981-1993 that was developed by Gordon Killebrew and sold by Performance Choice (I believe MIDAMERICA) and following the user's manual brings the same results to diagnose or clear. Reading somewhere else on a forum it indicates the DERM (Diagnostic Energy Reserve Module) could be bad if I can't get any kind of results from grounding.

Any input and help related to this issue will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Aloha,

Craig Toyooka
1990 #1727

[tomtom72]

not trying to be a wise guy....but it has a failure to go into diagnostic system check mode. You did check the airbag fuse?

going back to reading the FSM, be back as soon as I find something.

:cheers:
Tom

Did you pull the DERM to Instrument panel connector apart? Did you have the I/P harness out or disconned?

Essentially your INFLREST & SEATBELT light are both always on, even when you try to pull codes?

The book says: Ing off, ground pin K, Does the INFLREST flash codes? ----. answers : Y or N. If the INFLREST is on continuously then: turn Ing off; disconn DERM to I/P harness; Ing back ON; note INFLREST indicator, is it on or off? -----> If Not on, check DERM to I/P connector for short to ground. If no short, DERM toast. If Yes, ckt 358 has short to ground in I/P harness.

[Tyler Townsley]

Check the connectors under the dash. Both modules have a connector in the line and they will create high resistance that mimics a bad ground. Unplug it and clean it. This should be done first before doing any work at the module as it usually clears 90% of the problems.

Tyler

[todesengel]

Check the connectors under the dash. Both modules have a connector in the line and they will create high resistance that mimics a bad ground. Unplug it and clean it. This should be done first before doing any work at the module as it usually clears 90% of the problems.

Tyler

my sons zr1 has this issue. Could you tell me where these connectors are located, and what they look like?

TIA

[Tyler Townsley]

my sons zr1 has this issue. Could you tell me where these connectors are located, and what they look like?

TIA

The wire is unique. Its a single wire (not in the loom) about 1/8 in in dia and the connector for the pass side module is to the right of the hump up under the dash. Its been a long time since I did mine but I think it is white. Its one of the few wires not paired with any other wires. Its connector is unique and not like the other electrical connectors one sees in an automotive environment, its more like a IPOD stero plug.

Tyler

[todesengel]

The wire is unique. Its a single wire (not in the loom) about 1/8 in in dia and the connector for the pass side module is to the right of the hump up under the dash. Its been a long time since I did mine but I think it is white. Its one of the few wires not paired with any other wires. Its connector is unique and not like the other electrical connectors one sees in an automotive environment, its more like a IPOD stero plug.

Tyler

Thanks!

[HAWAIIZR-1]

not trying to be a wise guy....but it has a failure to go into diagnostic system check mode. You did check the airbag fuse?

going back to reading the FSM, be back as soon as I find something.

:cheers:
Tom

Did you pull the DERM to Instrument panel connector apart? Did you have the I/P harness out or disconned?

Essentially your INFLREST & SEATBELT light are both always on, even when you try to pull codes?

The book says: Ing off, ground pin K, Does the INFLREST flash codes? ----. answers : Y or N. If the INFLREST is on continuously then: turn Ing off; disconn DERM to I/P harness; Ing back ON; note INFLREST indicator, is it on or off? -----> If Not on, check DERM to I/P connector for short to ground. If no short, DERM toast. If Yes, ckt 358 has short to ground in I/P harness.

Tom,

I know, you can't help it.........lol

I'm trying to figure out why the lights came on and assume it had error codes. No, I did not check the fuse and will do so. My FSM has been shipped and my Z gets shipped tomorrow AM so I will have to deal with this next month if I can't resolve tonight. No, when trying to pull the codes no seatbelt light and then the INFL REST comes on, does a single flash and then stays on and that is it.

No, did not get as far as the DERM and don't know what it is or where at this point without the FSM. I did not mess with I/P harness or disconnect.

Thanks for your help and I appreciate it.

Craig

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Check the connectors under the dash. Both modules have a connector in the line and they will create high resistance that mimics a bad ground. Unplug it and clean it. This should be done first before doing any work at the module as it usually clears 90% of the problems.

Tyler

Okay, thanks Tyler.

Craig

[HAWAIIZR-1]

[QUOTE=tomtom72;109230] You did check the airbag fuse? QUOTE]

Tom,

The air bag fuse is GTG. Thanks, that would have been great if that was it.

[tomtom72]

I'll bet it's what Tyler said about some corrosion at the plug for the sensor. The left side connection is right where if your door leaks it will get hit.

Rob, the air bag wiring is Yellow & the connectors are three pin round connectors. The yellow is the sheath color....you will not fail to see it as it screams at you it's that bright yellow color.

:cheers:

[todesengel]

I'll bet it's what Tyler said about some corrosion at the plug for the sensor. The left side connection is right where if your door leaks it will get hit.

Rob, the air bag wiring is Yellow & the connectors are three pin round connectors. The yellow is the sheath color....you will not fail to see it as it screams at you it's that bright yellow color.

:cheers:

Thank you much Tom!

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I'll bet it's what Tyler said about some corrosion at the plug for the sensor. The left side connection is right where if your door leaks it will get hit.

Rob, the air bag wiring is Yellow & the connectors are three pin round connectors. The yellow is the sheath color....you will not fail to see it as it screams at you it's that bright yellow color.

:cheers:

Okay, thanks Tom.......I'll have to check it out later as I take the Z to the port in a few hours to ship overseas and was not able to address it last night.

Rob,
Thanks for asking the good question that will help me too.

:cheers:

[GTOger]

Best of luck with the ZR-1 in Japan! I'll wish it a safe journey for you (as I'm sure you will, as well). As I'm driving mine throughout the desert out on the West Coast and feeling like a lonely LT5, I'll be thinking of your car - on a boat! - headed to where they drive on the wrong side of the road and seldom see so many cylinders in a single engine. ;)

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Best of luck with the ZR-1 in Japan! I'll wish it a safe journey for you (as I'm sure you will, as well). As I'm driving mine throughout the desert out on the West Coast and feeling like a lonely LT5, I'll be thinking of your car - on a boat! - headed to where they drive on the wrong side of the road and seldom see so many cylinders in a single engine. ;)

Thanks for your wishes and greatly appreciated. Yeah, I hope it makes the long journey safely and did what I could yesterday to protect paint and wheels with REJEX. Well, they drive on the other side of the road, not the wrong side (we might be on the wrong side). Yes, I'm sure I will drive on the wrong side at some point until I get used to it..........
It will be cool to have American muscle in the area and they have tons of exotics driving around Yokohama, but I did not see many Corvettes or ZR-1s for that matter.

:proud:

[Hammer]

Craig,

Hope your journey is a good one. Please be sure to keep in touch brother.

John

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Craig,

Hope your journey is a good one. Please be sure to keep in touch brother.

John

Thanks John, I appreciate your thoughts and hoping you will visit for some sushi and beers....no geishas though.

Craig

[jrd1990zr1]

Craig,

As Tom said three wire in a yellow sheath. Passenger side is under the carpet in a connector to the firewall. Just about under your toes if you had your feet on the firewall carpet. I had one apart about 2 weeks ago, you can't miss it.

Drivers side is similar but it has been three years since I had that connector apart.

Tom's got a super bell button contraption for clearing the codes. Photo is in a different post.

Good luck :cheers:

[tomtom72]

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13972

Craig, here is the link to the thread that John is talking about.
:cheers:

[scottfab]

Craig, this is just a follow up reminder about what both Hib and I referred to on the ZR1NET list email.
When dealing with those yellow wires/connectors for the sensors, be careful.
While it is not likely to cause the bag to deploy (can ignition off and not rolling) there is still a chance especially since you have an unknown problem.
I suggest following the manual to make the system is safe before working on it.
OR at least make you no one is in the way of an accidental deploy.
Good Luck oh and hey, you need to visit the "Where are the ZR1s at" thread and list yours as in Japan. Oh wait there is not selection for that yet :)

[HAWAIIZR-1]

John, Tom and Scott,

Thanks for the info and looking out. I'll take it all in and try to remember so I can troubleshoot this issue once I am back with the Z again. All good info and pointers from all and greatly appreciated.

Yes, there needs to be more than just "Asia" in the where the Z reside. Asia is very huge..................

I know one of the responses is from a buddy I met that frequents here and I am told the Registry will do a Japan location for the club regional areas or at least put an area for it like the European Region. The probem is there might not be enough traffic to justify unless I can spearhead an effort with the ZR-1 owners in Japan that write and understand English.

Aloha,

Craig

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Okay, I'm ready to revisit this gremlin in my Z. I have the car running the best ever but now trying to get rid of those small, annoying things that have been bothering me.

My next step is the check the connectors as Tyler and have stated inside under the carpet, but the biggest question I have is why no codes can be pulled?

Using both of Gordon's diagnostics tool set of the the plugs and the actual tool with the disable switch, not only no codes, but nothing will clear the codes either. I can understand not being able to clear if you still have a problem, but nothing works to get any of the SIR codes so is that a toasted DERM? I can't find any info about no being able to pull codes at all. There one one other person two years ago on the other forum so I brought that one back to life and that guy had a bad derm, replaced it and later got the same problem.

Not only are those DERMS hard to find, but very expensive too and I see why some will pull bulbs instead. I am not the bulb pulling type and don't know I ever will be.

As stated initially all I get is a single flash and nothing else. I can pull codes for anything and everything else, but not the S.I.R. As for the external clean up and dielectric grease has all been done even a second time.

Thanks!

Craig

[WVZR-1]

Okay, I'm ready to revisit this gremlin in my Z. I have the car running the best ever but now trying to get rid of those small, annoying things that have been bothering me.

My next step is the check the connectors as Tyler and have stated inside under the carpet, but the biggest question I have is why no codes can be pulled?

Using both of Gordon's diagnostics tool set of the the plugs and the actual tool with the disable switch, not only no codes, but nothing will clear the codes either. I can understand not being able to clear if you still have a problem, but nothing works to get any of the SIR codes so is that a toasted DERM? I can't find any info about no being able to pull codes at all. There one one other person two years ago on the other forum so I brought that one back to life and that guy had a bad derm, replaced it and later got the same problem.

Not only are those DERMS hard to find, but very expensive too and I see why some will pull bulbs instead. I am not the bulb pulling type and don't know I ever will be.

As stated initially all I get is a single flash and nothing else. I can pull codes for anything and everything else, but not the S.I.R. As for the external clean up and dielectric grease has all been done even a second time.

Thanks!

Craig

I believe in a situation where I couldn't get conventional diagnostics and clearing devices to do their chore I'd try this. There's a 2 wire connector at the steering column base that goes up the column to the coil and bag. At the harness end to the DERM I'd use a 2 Ohm resistor to replicate the air-bag. I don't know that there are codes for coil errors or anything else related to the column. See what you get with the resistor instead of the air-bag connected.

A 2 Ohm resistor is hard to find but if there's someone that does air-bag resetting or custom interior work they will have a bag full of them. I believe air-bag guys buy them by the 100's.

The connector at the base of the column is very accessible. Maybe this connector is loose?

You could also do this. Use a known bad DERM connect it and see if it displays code 12 and then the codes 52 & 53 and then 12. You can use a DERM and access all of the connectors with out disturbing the install of the original DERM. The cables are long enough to reach the two connectors on the right side and also the two on the left side.

If you get packages sent to you regularly I've got a bad DERM that I know displays correct codes. It would seem a very simple diagnostic device.

I've just removed the CCM from my '90 and I could send a snapshot of the connectors that I mention. They're very accessible.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I believe in a situation where I couldn't get conventional diagnostics and clearing devices to do their chore I'd try this. There's a 2 wire connector at the steering column base that goes up the column to the coil and bag. At the harness end to the DERM I'd use a 2 Ohm resistor to replicate the air-bag. I don't know that there are codes for coil errors or anything else related to the column. See what you get with the resistor instead of the air-bag connected.

A 2 Ohm resistor is hard to find but if there's someone that does air-bag resetting or custom interior work they will have a bag full of them. I believe air-bag guys buy them by the 100's.

The connector at the base of the column is very accessible. Maybe this connector is loose?

You could also do this. Use a known bad DERM connect it and see if it displays code 12 and then the codes 52 & 53 and then 12. You can use a DERM and access all of the connectors with out disturbing the install of the original DERM. The cables are long enough to reach the two connectors on the right side and also the two on the left side.

If you get packages sent to you regularly I've got a bad DERM that I know displays correct codes. It would seem a very simple diagnostic device.

I've just removed the CCM from my '90 and I could send a snapshot of the connectors that I mention. They're very accessible.

Hello Dave,
Thanks so much for the info and PM. I will definitely check out what you are stating and it sounds like the direction to head into. It is mind boggling to not be able to pull codes at all, yet have the symptoms and lights that I read so much about the this MY.

I can't thank you enough for offering up the help. I'll check around for the resistor too. I have not found the Japanese version of Radio Shack yet.........lol.

:handshak:

Craig

[Dynomite]

Check the connectors under the dash. Both modules have a connector in the line and they will create high resistance that mimics a bad ground. Unplug it and clean it. This should be done first before doing any work at the module as it usually clears 90% of the problems.

Tyler

An Old Thread but a Solution to the New Problem.....AFTER Re-grounding the INFL REST Crash Sensors on both Left and Right Frame Rails the Code 16 could not be cleared until the Crash Sensor Connector Inside the Car was Disconnected and Re-Connected.

I'll bet it's what Tyler said about some corrosion at the plug for the sensor. The left side connection is right where if your door leaks it will get hit.

Rob, the air bag wiring is Yellow & the connectors are three pin round connectors. The yellow is the sheath color....you will not fail to see it as it screams at you it's that bright yellow color.



Yep....that was it for a Code 16 drivers side SIR Diagnostics (Supplemental Inflatable Restraints) :thumbsup:

The Connector is a three pin yellow round connector and just in front of Left Speaker at the same level as the top of the speaker. All you have to do is disconnect the Connector (round yellow plug type Connector with three pins inside) and reconnect the Connector. Code 16 goes away after resetting codes. The Plug Type Connector is about three inches long and 1/2 inch diameter.

To Reset SIR Diagnostics Codes using ALDL connect A to K and turn key on. When you see INFL REST flash disconnect A to K for 3 seconds.....then reconnect A to K for 3 seconds then disconnect A to K.

[max76]

Hi dynomite, I have already clean the two sensors on the chassis, and reset the errors, but the light is always on. I never read that for reset the errors need to disconnect the connector.
To do this operation need to remove the cover under the dash on the driver side?
I hope to resolve this problem!!! :-)

[Dynomite]

Hi dynomite, I have already clean the two sensors on the chassis, and reset the errors, but the light is always on. I never read that for reset the errors need to disconnect the connector.
To do this operation need to remove the cover under the dash on the driver side?
I hope to resolve this problem!!! :-)

The connectors themselves may have high resistance and the disconnecting and reconnecting them re-establishes the original connection.

There is a Connector inside the car under the carpet for each sensor (LH and RH). I described the location of the Drivers Side Sensor just under the Carpet in front of the Front Drivers Side Speaker at the height of the top of the speaker.

The RH (Code 26) Passenger Side Connector is located as follows......

The wire is unique. Its a single wire (not in the loom) about 1/8 in in dia and the connector for the pass side module is to the right of the hump up under the dash. Its been a long time since I did mine but I think it is white. Its one of the few wires not paired with any other wires. Its connector is unique and not like the other electrical connectors one sees in an automotive environment, its more like a IPOD stero plug.

Tyler

[max76]

Ok...thank you dynomite....
Last question...when I disconnect the connector, the battery must be isolated or I can leave it connect?
Why, before reset error, we must disconnect the connector?
Thanks

[Dynomite]

Ok...thank you dynomite....
Last question...when I disconnect the connector, the battery must be isolated or I can leave it connect?
Why, before reset error, we must disconnect the connector?
Thanks

Disconnect the battery but I think I disconnected the connector with battery connected.

You do not normally have to disconnect the Crash Sensor but sometimes that connector is actually the issue having corroded a bit and having greater resistance when checked causing the INFL REST light to come on and a SIR Diagnostics Code 16 or 26.

In other words......the connector is the problem and not the grounding of the sensor.

Just simply disconnecting and re-connecting the connector will re-establish a good contact within the connector.

[max76]

Ok...thank you so much Dyno!!!