NW region ?

[ZRWON]

With all the top management changes do we still have a regional org concept?
If yes, who replaced Jeff as our NW regional coordinator?
What events are planned for us?
What financial support from the top organization is available for regional activities?
Do we still exist out here?
What's going on with us?
:confused::icon_scra:???:

[DDSLT5]

Hi Bill - I believe Nick Solandros was the representative, but I'm not sure if he is still representing your area. I've sure enjoyed the gatherings in the PNW in the past and I hope they continue into the future. How's your beast treating you?:happy1:

[1990 415]

I was wondering this myself. I have attended the last 2 PNWZR1 gatherings and they were awesome. I hope they continue for many more years.

[Hammer]

Certainly hope they don't go away. I believe others have expressed interest in continuing them.

[Nick]

Bill: I have "unofficially" stepped up and taken responsibility for the Northwest region once again. Depending upon the $upport HQ gives us now and in the future, we will be making plans to continue our annual Summer event as well as other get-togethers throughout the year. One of these days, you will have to join us! :hello: I know I personally have expressed interest many times in seeing you and your Beast at one of our events! :thumbsup: If we have to, we'll come to you!

We have had a lot of fun in the Northwest with our events, and I for one feel it would be a shame to let our area down and not have support for the local ZR-1'ers and other Registry members. I know others feel the same as I do, including non-local members. :cheers:

[flyin ryan]

Thanks Nick ;)

[DDSLT5]

Thanks Nick ;)

Hey Ryan - need to see you at this event (if it happens) next year buddy! You have FOUR?!?!?!? Zs now?!??!?!?! NICE!:cheers:

[Polo-1]

Thanks Nick :thumbsup:

I hope some of my annual fee went to this years gathering. As a west coast guy, I'm unable to make it to the east coast as much as I would like. I would hope that my dues are spread out fairly to to help both West and East coast.

[ZR1FUN]

Here's another prespective. I am a west coast guy too. Two hours from the gathering site. I did not get a call, email or an announcement of the gathering from either the NW Registry or the National Registry. All forms of communication were available. In fact I had a call from another member who had not heard anything about a gathering and wanted to attend.

Since this party was for selected members only, I do not want any of my dues contributed to this private party. There really is a reason there was a small turn out at this private party.

Doug
ZR1FUN

PS: If there is anything to be paid to the sponsor of this party, it should first be applied to the outstanding debt of the sponsor

[Nick]

Here's another prespective. I am a west coast guy too. Two hours from the gathering site. I did not get a call, email or an announcement of the gathering from either the NW Registry or the National Registry. All forms of communication were available. In fact I had a call from another member who had not heard anything about a gathering and wanted to attend.

Hi Doug, nice to hear from you! Where have you been? Has it been two or three years since you have attended the West Coast's only ZR-1 Net Registry function? Last we heard from you was that you were building a shop and were going to host an event to celebrate. How did the shop turn out?

It is my understanding that you were sent an e-mail alerting you of our annual gathering which, as you know, is always held in conjunction with the Rose City Corvette club's annual event. Out of curiosity, who is the "other member" who supposedly did not hear about the event?

Since this party was for selected members only, I do not want any of my dues contributed to this private party. There really is a reason there was a small turn out at this private party.

The event was not for "selected members only," as you allege, and in no way was it a "private party." The event was known to the Registry Board and Officers, and sanctioned as such and approved for funding by Ron Kreigh and other Board members. It never has been a private event. We've even welcomed non-members, as you know.

PS: If there is anything to be paid to the sponsor of this party, it should first be applied to the outstanding debt of the sponsor

To what "outstanding debt" do you refer? I am not aware of any "outstanding debt." Many months ago we were told by Ron Kreigh that all issues were taken care of and put to bed. Did you not get that e-mail either?

Doug, I hope to see you soon at another event, if one happens. Better yet, go ahead and plan one. I for one don't mind if other local members "steer the boat" for awhile.

[A1990]

I never was informed about it.

[Polo-1]

You think that 396 is going to make it 3000 miles round trip:p

Your always welcome to come out west, just not sure if their will be another out west gathering......

[A1990]

You think that 396 is going to make it 3000 miles round trip:p

Your always welcome to come out west, just not sure if their will be another out west gathering......

It would do that trip with ease. I could have gotten on a plane too. Didn't get the private invite though.

[Polo-1]

I did not know you had not received a email. I would have forwarded you mine.
You could have been my special invitee.

:cheers:

[Nick]

Dennis: Would you have come out? I would hope so. :thumbsup:

[A1990]

I enjoyed meeting Locobob and Kevin at BG this year. I have no problems at all with Jeff. I would like to be attend this event in the future.

[Nick]

I enjoyed meeting Locobob and Kevin at BG this year. I have no problems at all with Jeff. I would like to be attend this event in the future.
Dennis, they are both great guys, and I have known them for a long time. I hope to meet you in person as well someday. :cheers:

[ZRWON]

Bill: I have "unofficially" stepped up and taken responsibility for the Northwest region once again. Depending upon the $upport HQ gives us now and in the future, we will be making plans to continue our annual Summer event as well as other get-togethers throughout the year. One of these days, you will have to join us! :hello: I know I personally have expressed interest many times in seeing you and your Beast at one of our events! :thumbsup: If we have to, we'll come to you!

We have had a lot of fun in the Northwest with our events, and I for one feel it would be a shame to let our area down and not have support for the local ZR-1'ers and other Registry members. I know others feel the same as I do, including non-local members. :cheers:

Thanks for the response. I have never been able to attend any of the Gatherings since moving back to Whidbey Island in 1994 At my age traveling any where is big deal for my old body. The 20th gathering was really a big trip and then required a couple stops both ways...getting old sucks. Traveling is even a greater problem for my wife. That said I really do like to read all the emails of what's happening in our area and on the natioal level
Some how I must have been taken off the mailing list. I heard nothing after all the posts about BG.
Please add my email to the region mailing list. I am a founding member and want to at least read about all the members and activities

BG gathering was one of the best Corvette events I ever attended. I am so pleased to have been there with all the old friends and putting faces with names
Thanks again and glad you stepped up to keep us active out here
Bill Strowbridge
1283 E Duncan Rd
Oak Harbor WA 98277
360-675-2629
bbstrow@comcast.net

[rkreigh]

let me try and set the record straight

the board voted 5 to 3 to not fund the PNW this year

Procedures for this event were not met. This was a private event and not announced or published prior to the date. There were local members who were unaware of the event. Expenditures were not approved prior to the event.
we have some fairly simple procedures to ensure events are announced, funding requested, reviewed, and approved prior to the event happening. this year that didn't happen which led to the vote to not reimburse.
going forward, I am going to publish guidelines to ensure that this doesn't happen again as I want to encourage regional events that give all club members a chance to get together and enjoy the ZR-1 experience and comraderie that the club is intended to support.
but the bottom line is that any event must be announced, available for all members to attend, and costs pre-approved as has happened in past years.

[ZRWON]

let me try and set the record straight

the board voted 5 to 3 to not fund the PNW this year

Procedures for this event were not met.
.... Expenditures were not approved prior to the event.
we have some fairly simple procedures to ensure events are announced, funding requested, reviewed, and approved prior to the event happening.
...I am going to publish guidelines to ensure that this doesn't happen again...
What a great idea. Now, since we are required to conduct business by formal rules with no exceptions, then it's logical we all know the rules.
We sure have come a long way since 1st forming this organization a zillion years ago...guess that's progress; live and learn:cheers:

[cvette]

Dennis: Would you have come out? I would hope so. :thumbsup:


Does it matter if he would have come out? How can you plan to attend something you are unaware of?

[Nick]

Does it matter if he would have come out? How can you plan to attend something you are unaware of?

Read my post again. My queries to Dennis had nothing to do with whether he knew about the event or not. I was simply inquiring if he would have come out.

[ZRWON]

I was wondering last night if ZR-1 members in other regions were reading this embarrassing petty crap going on between those in NW region and those mighty ones of power in our Executive branch who demand strict adherence to every detail of the rule book even tho some of us don't know them.
I also wondered if we in NW Region were being punished because Jeff Flint was involved in what some feel was our stupid mistake... even if it was caused by Jeff. He paid for his mistakes...NOW, get rid of the "punish bad Jeff" crap and get on with productive things.
From some of the executive's comments I've been reading you'd get the impression they were comanding officers or heads of large corporations; not leaders of a social organization.
We the Registry members are not your minions
I''ve seen too many Corvette clubs go down the tubes because political factions destroyed them. PLEASE, NOT HERE
Is all this petty bickering with things like... he said, or I said or rule 31 said, or it was not a formal event, published to all members, or will he attend. etc, going to be the demise of what we all wanted when we first started this group?
I wasn't invited to the outlawed gathering at Jeff's house...maybe because I never attended one in the past and he/they knew I wouldn't attend this one...who gives a sh3t. It's not a failure of any importance.

It's time we have an attitude adjustment by OUR all powerful executives.
Examine why we exist and what you as leaders should be doing to help the group vs. exerting your authority and tearing us apart.

Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy

Let's resolve to forget yesterday and move on as a group of friends helping one another.

If you don't want to be a team member/player then move on to another sport.

PLEASE, Enuff is Enuff

[-X :mad: :censored: :worship:

[1990 415]

I was wondering last night if ZR-1 members in other regions were reading this embarrassing petty crap going on between those in NW region and those mighty ones of power in our Executive branch who demand strict adherence to every detail of the rule book even tho some of us don't know them.
I also wondered if we in NW Region were being punished because Jeff Flint was involved in what some feel was our stupid mistake... even if it was caused by Jeff. He paid for his mistakes...NOW, get rid of the "punish bad Jeff" crap and get on with productive things.
From some of the executive's comments I've been reading you'd get the impression they were comanding officers or heads of large corporations; not leaders of a social organization.
We the Registry members are not your minions
I''ve seen too many Corvette clubs go down the tubes because political factions destroyed them. PLEASE, NOT HERE
Is all this petty bickering with things like... he said, or I said or rule 31 said, or it was not a formal event, published to all members, or will he attend. etc, going to be the demise of what we all wanted when we first started this group?
I wasn't invited to the outlawed gathering at Jeff's house...maybe because I never attended one in the past and he/they knew I wouldn't attend this one...who gives a sh3t. It's not a failure of any importance.

It's time we have an attitude adjustment by OUR all powerful executives.
Examine why we exist and what you as leaders should be doing to help the group vs. exerting your authority and tearing us apart.

Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy

Let's resolve to forget yesterday and move on as a group of friends helping one another.

If you don't want to be a team member/player then move on to another sport.

PLEASE, Enuff is Enuff

[-X :mad: :censored: :worship:
Well said. We need your energy on the Board. Any interest in being nominated for president?=D>

[ZRWON]

Well said. We need your energy on the Board. Any interest in being nominated for president?=D>

Wish I could be of service but with my age and health I best stay on the sidelines offering support in any positive way I might feel appropriate. Thanks for the nice words :cheers:

[A1990]

Bill:

When you took time out of what you were doing this year in BG to help me with my tire and when my MSD box failed and the Idaho and South Dakota brothers hung in with me to help get my car going I realized more than ever it is OTHERS above SELF...

You are always in service to others before yourself and for that I commend you!!! If only we all had this spirit...

I am way over this act...lets move on a learn from it.

[ZRWON]

Bill:

When you took time out of what you were doing this year in BG to help me with my tire and when my MSD box failed and the Idaho and South Dakota brothers hung in with me to help get my car going I realized more than ever it is OTHERS above SELF...
You are always in service to others before yourself and for that I commend you!!! If only we all had this spirit...
I am way over this act...lets move on a learn from it.

Thanks for those very kind words but I assure you that I've recieved more acts of kindness and service from others than I'll ever be able to repay. I have memories of it starting in the late 1930s with my familiy's demonstrating their practice of "Give, and ye shall receive"
My life has resulted in more accomplishments than I ever dreamed possible all because of help from others.

Another subject; I really want you to be our treasurer. You will bring much needed expertise to the position. Thanks for agreeing to be our candidate.
Did you ever get my drooling spots rubbed off your outstanding toy that I left when we had it at JVD's?
If I hadn't spent so much time admiring your Vette we'd have been better prepared for the BBQ that night :icon_thum:cheers:
Best regards, Bill

[Nick]

I was wondering last night if ZR-1 members in other regions were reading this embarrassing petty crap going on between those in NW region and those mighty ones of power in our Executive branch who demand strict adherence to every detail of the rule book even tho some of us don't know them.
Bingo!

I also wondered if we in NW Region were being punished because Jeff Flint was involved in what some feel was our stupid mistake... even if it was caused by Jeff.
That's EXACTLY what is going on. Make no mistake about it; this issue involves personal vendettas.

He paid for his mistakes...NOW, get rid of the "punish bad Jeff" crap and get on with productive things...
He paid, all right, and apparently, he continues to "pay."

From some of the executive's comments I've been reading you'd get the impression they were comanding officers or heads of large corporations; not leaders of a social organization.
We the Registry members are not your minions.
Excellent point, Bill. Arrogance reigns supreme here, in some examples.

I''ve seen too many Corvette clubs go down the tubes because political factions destroyed them. PLEASE, NOT HERE
Is all this petty bickering with things like... he said, or I said or rule 31 said, or it was not a formal event, published to all members, or will he attend. etc, going to be the demise of what we all wanted when we first started this group?
Maybe so!

It's time we have an attitude adjustment by OUR all powerful executives.
Amen, Bill. I'd vote for cleaning out the entire Board, and replacing them with fresh people, not just shuffling them around to different positions. Unfortunately, being that this is a "volunteer" organization, its hard to find people who have the time, energy, and inclination to serve.
Wait: If you volunteer, and are paid, are you still a volunteer?

Examine why we exist and what you as leaders should be doing to help the group vs. exerting your authority and tearing us apart.
Well said!

[tomcat]

All,
How goes the Battle? I really don't know what the issues are but it is about getting together of ZR1 owners, networking & having fun. I don't have no issues with anyone or any ZR1. If you are not on the distro list go to http://pnwzr1.net request to be added to the e-mail list. Lets move on & let NorthWest region be the best & the most active of folks in the ZR1 community. I will be cruising by Lake Washington & the Space Needle today in the Seattle Area.

Manfred E....... :salute:
91 #906

[1990 415]

Bingo!


That's EXACTLY what is going on. Make no mistake about it; this issue involves personal vendettas.


He paid, all right, and apparently, he continues to "pay."


Excellent point, Bill. Arrogance reigns supreme here, in some examples.


Maybe so!


Amen, Bill. I'd vote for cleaning out the entire Board, and replacing them with fresh people, not just shuffling them around to different positions. Unfortunately, being that this is a "volunteer" organization, its hard to find people who have the time, energy, and inclination to serve.
Wait: If you volunteer, and are paid, are you still a volunteer?


Well said!
Great points Nick. Until the current Board is cleaned out and replaced the vendetta against Jeff will continue to fester.
What are you referring to when you ask "If you volunteer, and are paid, are you still a volunteer?" ?

[Nick]

Great points Nick. Until the current Board is cleaned out and replaced the vendetta against Jeff will continue to fester.
What are you referring to when you ask "If you volunteer, and are paid, are you still a volunteer?" ?
I was referring to the fact that Board members get paid to attend events.

[4DSZR1]

Paid how? Expenses? Airfare to an event?

Rick

[1990 415]

Paid how? Expenses? Airfare to an event?

Rick

Indeed, how? Has this been done since the founding of the registry? How much are they paid? Is this in the by-laws?:jawdrop:

[Nick]

Paid how? Expenses? Airfare to an event?

Rick

Check for $300 each, paid out of the Registry piggy bank. Max of $600 per year. That's what I have learned.

[Nick]

Indeed, how? Has this been done since the founding of the registry? How much are they paid? Is this in the by-laws?:jawdrop:
I don't know how long this has been done. My sense is that it hasn't been done but for the last year or two. Its not in the Bylaws, per se. It is deemed an "incentive" to serve. Perhaps as an "exception" to the Bylaws.
Someone else should ask. I'm out of favor.

[1990 415]

Does this mean that for Carlisle 2 weeks ago, the 6 board members that went to that show were paid a total of $1800.00 from the Registry's piggy bank? That would make Carlisle quite an expensive gathering for the Registry to fund wouldn't it?

[Aurora40]

I was wondering last night if ZR-1 members in other regions were reading this embarrassing petty crap going on between those in NW region and those mighty ones of power in our Executive branch who demand strict adherence to every detail of the rule book even tho some of us don't know them.
I also wondered if we in NW Region were being punished because Jeff Flint was involved in what some feel was our stupid mistake... even if it was caused by Jeff. He paid for his mistakes...NOW, get rid of the "punish bad Jeff" crap and get on with productive things.
From some of the executive's comments I've been reading you'd get the impression they were comanding officers or heads of large corporations; not leaders of a social organization.
We the Registry members are not your minions
I''ve seen too many Corvette clubs go down the tubes because political factions destroyed them. PLEASE, NOT HERE
Is all this petty bickering with things like... he said, or I said or rule 31 said, or it was not a formal event, published to all members, or will he attend. etc, going to be the demise of what we all wanted when we first started this group?
I wasn't invited to the outlawed gathering at Jeff's house...maybe because I never attended one in the past and he/they knew I wouldn't attend this one...who gives a sh3t. It's not a failure of any importance.

It's time we have an attitude adjustment by OUR all powerful executives.
Examine why we exist and what you as leaders should be doing to help the group vs. exerting your authority and tearing us apart.

Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy

Let's resolve to forget yesterday and move on as a group of friends helping one another.

If you don't want to be a team member/player then move on to another sport.

PLEASE, Enuff is Enuff

[-X :mad: :censored: :worship:

Wow man, you sure can sling some ****!

You accuse the board of a vendetta. You suggest the power of their (mighty?) positions has gone straight to their head. You call the NW gathering "outlawed" as if the Registry is attempting to strictly control every time two or more ZR-1's are parked in the same place.

Then you have the gall to say "Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy". Really? A lesson on tact after you make several slanderous accusations and present exactly zero facts?

Since you seem to have an even stronger, louder, and ruder opinion than Nick does (and he at least has some skin in the game), can you please quantify your opinion? (I'd ask you to present some facts to back up your opinion, but it seems fairly clear you haven't any)

As far as I can tell, you didn't go to the NW event, and know nothing about the planning of it, conversations between planners and the board, or even what happened at the event. How much money was spent per registry member at it? Do you know that?

Were you involved in the Jeff thing? You seem to think there's some resentment, etc. Were you there, do you have an insight into any of the discussions to see if there was something brewing? It seems pretty clear to me that if the majority of the board had it in for the guy, he'd be facing criminal charges instead of just being asked to step down. That is, if he was even asked, maybe he volunteered? Since you have such a strong opinion, I assume you can tell us how it all went down.

How many of the board members have you met? Can you tell me of some times when you talked with one or more of them, and they exhibited an attitude of superiority, or of authority over you as a minion?

Please, please quantify this opinion you have. Or else please, please stop posting it over and over.

Lastly:
We the Registry members
Please do not use this phrase again. I am a registry member, and I am telling you now so you will know in the future, you do not speak for me. Please use a phrase like "Some of us Registry members" or "Me, as a registry member", because now you know there is at least one member you don't represent. Thanks.

[Nick]

Does this mean that for Carlisle 2 weeks ago, the 6 board members that went to that show were paid a total of $1800.00 from the Registry's piggy bank? That would make Carlisle quite an expensive gathering for the Registry to fund wouldn't it?
That's how the math works out, yes. Again, someone should ask.
Simply put, in my opinion, if the Bylaws are so loosely construed as to include Board members' attendance at "official" events, then perhaps they can be so loosely construed as to reimburse the PNW group for an event at less than half the cost of one Board member meeting. Simple as that.

[RICKYRJ1]

Hey everybody!:proud:ZR-1 Brother!

[4DSZR1]

I don't know how long this has been done. My sense is that it hasn't been done but for the last year or two. Its not in the Bylaws, per se. It is deemed an "incentive" to serve. Perhaps as an "exception" to the Bylaws.
Someone else should ask. I'm out of favor.

Consider the question politely asked:



Did the exec board members that were at Carlisle get paid incentive monies from the Registry?

Thank you
Rick

[1990 415]

Consider the question politely asked:



Did the exec board members that were at Carlisle get paid incentive monies from the Registry?

Thank you
Rick

Excellent question. I suspect the vast majority of this registry would really like to know the answer to that question. I sure do.

[rkreigh]

let me state a few facts

a little over a year ago we voted to approve up to 300 per event, maximum of 600 annually per year to help board members offset their costs to attend and help work the events. this isn't a violation of the bylaws, as it's like many other operating expenses

for carlisle we haven't paid out anything (ZERO)

so if you all feel that is totally unreasonble, let me know, and I'll motion that we don't continue that practice but understand the impact, it might make the difference in how many are able to show up and help put on the events

what was happening is that very few of the board members could afford to attend and help work the events, and we wanted to make sure there was enough support at each event in lieu of having 1 or 2 people to do all the work.

for carlilse, we were able to attract vendors to contribute products and run raffles that made the club money that more the offset the burgers, sodas, and water we served. so the event turned a profit. pretty cool.

what is disturbing, is that there is a perception that the board is arrogant and needs an "attitude" adjustment. it's a shame folks are judged without even meeting them. I wished I could afford to attend the PNW event but with carlisle, bg and sgc which as well as many east coast events, I only have so much leave time and dollars to devote

trust me, I've spend way more supporting the club than the whopping 600 I've gotten reimbursed over the past years.

but if you all feel that's an unreasonable decision, just say so, and I'll motion we stop. we vote on any expenditures and are happy to revisit this issue.

rather than feeding the rumour mill and stating a bunch of false info, just ask. I'm happy to get and give feedback to let everyone know what's going on

and I always welcome and solicit feeback on how to approve.

in summary

and if you want to make the club better, run for office, and help support it

you get out of it what you put into it.

I've put into it alot, but can't even come close to the investment of time and dollars that mom and others have

I'll get off my soap box now

[Aurora40]

Simply put, in my opinion, if the Bylaws are so loosely construed as to include Board members' attendance at "official" events, then perhaps they can be so loosely construed as to reimburse the PNW group for an event at less than half the cost of one Board member meeting. Simple as that.
I have to say... Initially you seemed fairly sincere, though a bit abrasive, in your surprise that your event was not reimbursed. But the more you post, the more petty and contrived your argument seems to be.

Initially you felt you had been promised reimbursement, at least that is the argument you put forth. Jerry has addressed that, and you seem to have dropped that argument. Now your approach is that the Registry already spends money "loosely", so they may as well pay you off too.

That is not a strong argument, my man. Stirring up the pot doesn't lend a lot of credibility to your plea.

Myself and a few others have already stated we would help offset your costs to put this thing to rest. If your goal is also to put this to rest, vs to stir up some ****, please post or PM an address or paypal email account or something, and let's get it done.

[Nick]

I have to say... Initially you seemed fairly sincere, though a bit abrasive, in your surprise that your event was not reimbursed. But the more you post, the more petty and contrived your argument seems to be.
"Fairly sincere?" I'm totally sincere. "Contrived?" What, do you think I sit around and think this stuff up for a living?

Initially you felt you had been promised reimbursement, at least that is the argument you put forth. Jerry has addressed that, and you seem to have dropped that argument. Now your approach is that the Registry already spends money "loosely", so they may as well pay you off too.
That argument stands.

That is not a strong argument, my man. Stirring up the pot doesn't lend a lot of credibility to your plea.
I could care less about credibility at this point. I only care about what is fair.

Myself and a few others have already stated we would help offset your costs to put this thing to rest. If your goal is also to put this to rest, vs to stir up some ****, please post or PM an address or paypal email account or something, and let's get it done.
Indeed, Bob, the goal is to put this thing to rest, and I appreciate your most generous offer, as well as that of others. I'll not take anyone else's money, though. Its your fight only to the extent that you have a vested interest in Registry business and expenditures, and that doesn't mean you should put money out of pocket for our event. You've already done that through your annual dues. The issue belongs to me and the others in the PNW who strive to put on the only West Coast event "sponsored" by the Registry. Formerly sponsored, that is.
Thanks, Bob.

[4DSZR1]

Thanks for the clarification on the pay for the board members. You asked if we have an issue with the policy to let you know. My question should this be public debate be done in a more organized fashion? Maybe a dedicated sticky for a period of time to gauge the members? Is this something the membership could or should vote on in? Or maybe not. Thanks again for sharing the facts!

Rick

[phrogs]

What is unfortunate is that regardless of rumors and hearsay from the outside looking in it seems to me the guys in the PNW have been punished because Jeff was going to be a part of the event.


Its like no one else has ever made a mistakes.

can we get past this?

[xlr8nflorida]

I'm not going get in the debate between the board or the NW region. At first blush though, it seems like there are a lack of forms/procedures/checklists in place for these events which would make it crystal clear upfront whether the event was or was not supported by the registry. I know if it were my $, I would not hold the event until I had it in writing by a registry board member saying that my event was approved and I would be reimbursed. I'm not privy to all the emails or phone conversations so I'll stay out of the blame game.

A paypal account should be posted for the person in the NW who fronted all the costs. It seems to me that all the people who attended the event should be more then generous and pay their share for attending the event. If you had 16 people contribute $50 it would be a done deal. If I was the event coordinator and the 'peeps' who attended didn't come through, then it would be the last time I ever planned an event. Other members can also contribute if they so feel like doing to the fund.

Most of the problems on this board, relate to communication or lack thereof. When people stand up and say something, the general consensus is "run for office" or let's see you do a better job or that the people making the negative comments are just malcontents.

There have been many real concerns over the last year or two regarding the financial statements. The general consensus was its only $30,000. Well low and behold there was an issue and many concerned members, posts were often deleted and nobody heard anything from the board except it was taken care of. Now I could care less because I've known Jeff for awhile and he has always been good to me and quite frankly my $40 in dues is nothing. However because of the way it was handled, I think it festered and has stuck around like dirty laundry. I don't know the full details but I thought he used a credit card for personal expenses without asking for approval first. If that was the case, the board could have just said "Jeff charged $200 worth of gas, he has resigned his position and has repaid the $200." That would have made the situation end with no further discussion. Instead its still being discussed today. Why?

Members want to see what is going on. This all can be done through Google calendars, facebook, etc. Meeting minutes should be posted etc. Board Members should post regularly and at a minimum, have to post a "Sticky" on the first of each month.
If this was all done, you would start to see other members step up.

The Grandsport Registry donated $10,000 to the museum this year and they only have 1,000 cars, we have almost 7,000. Hutch does a great job on the GS Registry board and in Florida with his Corvette club as well. How does he do it?

Outstanding leadership and hard work.

Do we want the ZR-1 registry to be average or do we want it to kick ***?

I'd like it to kick ***, if that meant $150 per year dues and possibly even some paid board positions, I am ok with that as long as this registry continues to grow and get better and better and I feel I'm getting my $ worth.

Groups like Wazoo, members helping one another, members doing group purchases, more participation from the membership. Electronic email, social media to get more memberships. What are the benefits of a Registry Member vs say someone who just joins the forum??

[DaveK]

I don't know the full details

That to me is exactly why it keeps festering - the details have never been made clear to members, it was all handled behind the scenes. What little we found out came out in a confusion of dribs and drabs that left as much unanswered as it answered.

As for the rest of this saga, there's a lot I could say but I won't so as not to add to the whining going on.

[ZRWON]

I don't know how long this has been done. My sense is that it hasn't been done but for the last year or two. Its not in the Bylaws, per se. It is deemed an "incentive" to serve. Perhaps as an "exception" to the Bylaws.
Someone else should ask. I'm out of favor.
Wrong Nick as demonstrated, there can be NO EXCEPTIONS to the bylaws

[ZRWON]

Wow man, you sure can sling some ****!

Lastly:

Please do not use this phrase again. I am a registry member, and I am telling you now so you will know in the future, you do not speak for me. Please use a phrase like "Some of us Registry members" or "Me, as a registry member", because now you know there is at least one member you don't represent. Thanks.

Like it or not I meant every word I said in my post...\, But I agree with you regarding my sentence, "We the Registry members are not your minions"
I should have said, We the Registry members, except for Aurora40, are not your minions :sign10:

[Nick]

Wrong Nick as demonstrated, there can be NO EXCEPTIONS to the bylaws
Roger that, Bill. Thanks for your input on this issue.
As an aside, let's get together sometime. Maybe a non-Registry sponsored Whidbey cruise? :cheers:

[4DSZR1]

Roger that, Bill. Thanks for your input on this issue.
As an aside, let's get together sometime. Maybe a non-Registry sponsored Whidbey cruise? :cheers:

Great idea for a cruise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rick

[ZRWON]

Wow man, you sure can sling some ****!
...several slanderous accusations and present exactly zero facts?
Were you involved in the Jeff thing? ? It seems pretty clear to me that if the majority of the board had it in for the guy, he'd be facing criminal charges instead of just being asked to step down.
How many of the board members have you met?
Please, please quantify this opinion you have. Or else please, please stop posting it over and over.

You'd be suprised about how many of the real details I know about what exactly went on with Jeff, Mom's resignation and why, and many other ZR-1 registry events, NE events etc.
I'll not bother to continue this political BS by posting any of what I know which will just rekindle the fires.. Time to let it die.

[Rex Ruby]

I've been labeled the 'pot stirrer" on the Jeff issue and blamed for MOM's resignation.
As stated above if the Jeff issue had been handled and communicated up front from our leadership we would be well past it at this time. All I wanted when I made questioning threads or posts (and most if not all were deleted to keep it quiet) was from a member's position to be informed by leadership as to what was happening within this organization that I have supported from the beginning. I feel as members we are all owed that from leadership.

The issue of the NW event not being reimbursed is a problem. We do need clear rules on what has to be met for an event to be sanctioned by the Registry and expenses paid for by the Registry. I hope the new administration puts that high on their TO DO list!

I don't believe the NW is being punished for Jeff. Maybe not being reimbursed had something to do with a questionable catering invoice from a catering company that Jeff's relatives operate. I heard the food was purchased at a wholesale club.

Maybe it also had something to do with the promotion of this NW event. Not that I would have made a 3000 trip for this but point is I never saw it posted here or got an email invite.

Jeff took from our Registry funds with the credit card incident w/o intent to pay it back. Otherwise he would have immediately reimbursed the Registry and not had his deeds discovered by others months later. Jeff's actions are grounds for membership revocation. I find it hard to be a member of an organization that allows a member who got his hand caught in the till to remain a member in good standing.

Board members receiving money to help the with event attendance expenses? Isn't that part of your donation when you agree to run and then are elected? Maybe if the by laws required board member attendance to a certain amount of events and then if they did more than the requirement? I'm not sure about this one. Can I submit a gas receipt for my Carlisle gas?:-D

This Registry needs a members only section or the forum be restricted to members only. Issues would be private among ourselves and allow better discussion and feedback for the board to be able to make decisions with a lot of member input.

We seriously need things revamped with this Registry or it will cease to exist.
We need to put the past behind us or just kill this Registry now.
The work that MOM and previous boards and members have done since the beginning goes a long way to the preservation of our cherished ZR1s. I am greatful for that effort.
We need to agree to disagree on somethings and remember that our common interest in the ZR1 is our common bond.

I'd been considering not renewing next year's membership, the fighting, politics and behind closed door decisions and issues I have no time for. BUT I'm going to give the new leadership sometime to see how they can turn things around.

Flame suit on I can feel it coming, but I call it like I see it, no BS with me.
Time to move forward.:cheers:

[Aurora40]

Jeff took from our Registry funds with the credit card incident w/o intent to pay it back. Otherwise he would have immediately reimbursed the Registry and not had his deeds discovered by others months later. Jeff's actions are grounds for membership revocation. I find it hard to be a member of an organization that allows a member who got his hand caught in the till to remain a member in good standing.
I'm glad you said this. I've met Jeff and dealt with him some. He's a nice guy, and has helped a lot of people. But that's irrelevant. He spent club money on personal expenses. His intent to pay it back is also irrelevant. This is a failure at the most basic level in his responsibility, and I can't believe anyone anywhere would try to defend it or suggest he should not be removed from his position on the board. That absolutely floors me that anyone would think that should slide.

[1990 415]

I've been labeled the 'pot stirrer" on the Jeff issue and blamed for MOM's resignation.
As stated above if the Jeff issue had been handled and communicated up front from our leadership we would be well past it at this time. All I wanted when I made questioning threads or posts (and most if not all were deleted to keep it quiet) was from a member's position to be informed by leadership as to what was happening within this organization that I have supported from the beginning. I feel as members we are all owed that from leadership.

The issue of the NW event not being reimbursed is a problem. We do need clear rules on what has to be met for an event to be sanctioned by the Registry and expenses paid for by the Registry. I hope the new administration puts that high on their TO DO list!

I don't believe the NW is being punished for Jeff. Maybe not being reimbursed had something to do with a questionable catering invoice from a catering company that Jeff's relatives operate. I heard the food was purchased at a wholesale club.

Maybe it also had something to do with the promotion of this NW event. Not that I would have made a 3000 trip for this but point is I never saw it posted here or got an email invite.

Jeff took from our Registry funds with the credit card incident w/o intent to pay it back. Otherwise he would have immediately reimbursed the Registry and not had his deeds discovered by others months later. Jeff's actions are grounds for membership revocation. I find it hard to be a member of an organization that allows a member who got his hand caught in the till to remain a member in good standing.

Board members receiving money to help the with event attendance expenses? Isn't that part of your donation when you agree to run and then are elected? Maybe if the by laws required board member attendance to a certain amount of events and then if they did more than the requirement? I'm not sure about this one. Can I submit a gas receipt for my Carlisle gas?:-D

This Registry needs a members only section or the forum be restricted to members only. Issues would be private among ourselves and allow better discussion and feedback for the board to be able to make decisions with a lot of member input.

We seriously need things revamped with this Registry or it will cease to exist.
We need to put the past behind us or just kill this Registry now.
The work that MOM and previous boards and members have done since the beginning goes a long way to the preservation of our cherished ZR1s. I am greatful for that effort.
We need to agree to disagree on somethings and remember that our common interest in the ZR1 is our common bond.

I'd been considering not renewing next year's membership, the fighting, politics and behind closed door decisions and issues I have no time for. BUT I'm going to give the new leadership sometime to see how they can turn things around.

Flame suit on I can feel it coming, but I call it like I see it, no BS with me.
Time to move forward.:cheers:
How do you know with 100% certainty that Jeff had no intent to pay back the Registry? Did you personally speak to Jeff about this? If that was his intent, then why did he pay back the Registry in full?
You claim you want to put the past behind you, after making wild assumptions about Jeff. What you really want is to stir up even more controversy by making slanderous accusations.
You claim no BS from you, however your post is full of BS and that is a fact.:thumbsdo:

[Aurora40]

What you really want is to stir up even more controversy by making slanderous accusations.

Until the current Board is cleaned out and replaced the vendetta against Jeff will continue to fester.

Does this mean that for Carlisle 2 weeks ago, the 6 board members that went to that show were paid a total of $1800.00 from the Registry's piggy bank?

See if you can spot the irony...

You honed in on whether Jeff intended to pay it back. Does it matter? Is there some acceptable kind of embezzlement when the person plans to pay back the money they took later? Not to mention, you can't say with 100% certainly he did intend to pay it back. You can't look into someone and see their intent any more than the poster you responded to can. Does this mean then that no one can be judged on their actions, or reasonable conclusions can't be made? Of course not.

[Rex Ruby]

How do you know with 100% certainty that Jeff had no intent to pay back the Registry? Did you personally speak to Jeff about this? If that was his intent, then why did he pay back the Registry in full?
You claim you want to put the past behind you, after making wild assumptions about Jeff. What you really want is to stir up even more controversy by making slanderous accusations.
You claim no BS from you, however your post is full of BS and that is a fact.:thumbsdo:

When funds are taken w/o approval and not brought forth by the taker then months later an accounting finds it I'd say it's a real safe assumption that payback was not in the plan.:handshak:

[1990 415]

See if you can spot the irony...

You honed in on whether Jeff intended to pay it back. Does it matter? Is there some acceptable kind of embezzlement when the person plans to pay back the money they took later? Not to mention, you can't say with 100% certainly he did intend to pay it back. You can't look into someone and see their intent any more than the poster you responded to can. Does this mean then that no one can be judged on their actions, or reasonable conclusions can't be made? Of course not.

Unlike yourself, I know Jeff very well and I do know his intent. I do know with 100% certainty that he intended to pay it back when he could. I don't waste my time making assumptions like you and Rex Ruby love to do. Try posting with facts and not guesses based on assumptions. Your assumptions just create more unnecessary slander.

[Nick]

I don't believe the NW is being punished for Jeff. Maybe not being reimbursed had something to do with a questionable catering invoice from a catering company that Jeff's relatives operate. I heard the food was purchased at a wholesale club.
Who gives a good gosh darn where the food came from, or who the caterer is related to? Would you be happier if she bought it at a high end store and charged more for putting on the event? I sure as hell wouldn't, given that I'm footing the bill this year! Besides, the only one who can establish factually where the food came from is the caterer, and I sure don't see her posting here. Frankly, she's done with us.
By the way, where did you "hear" where the caterer got her food? Who is the rumor monger, anyway?

Jeff took from our Registry funds with the credit card incident w/o intent to pay it back. Otherwise he would have immediately reimbursed the Registry and not had his deeds discovered by others months later. Jeff's actions are grounds for membership revocation. I find it hard to be a member of an organization that allows a member who got his hand caught in the till to remain a member in good standing.
Hell, while we are at it, let's bring back the several years old discussion about Clint Hooper and the old LT5 Registry. He stole $25,000, clearly with no intent to pay it back. Anybody remember THAT one? Last time I brought it up I was told to shut up and leave it alone. The Old Guard, closing ranks again.

Board members receiving money to help the with event attendance expenses?
Indeed. Up to $600 per year, EACH, for a SINGLE person. And I'm only asking for $875 for 30 people for one year.

Isn't that part of your donation when you agree to run and then are elected?
Agreed. Paid Board members of a non-profit social club. That's a new one on me. Further research is indicated.

[Aurora40]

Unlike yourself, I know Jeff very well and I do know his intent. I do know with 100% certainty that he intended to pay it back when he could. I don't waste my time making assumptions like you and Rex Ruby love to do. Try posting with facts and not guesses based on assumptions. Your assumptions just create more unnecessary slander.
What assumption did I make? And can you please clarify how an intent to pay the money back matters? That makes stealing OK in your book?

It is funny that you think your close relationship to Jeff makes you more impartial. Maybe people should be tried by their good friends, that way their intent can be accurately taken into account.

[1990 415]

What assumption did I make? And can you please clarify how an intent to pay the money back matters? That makes stealing OK in your book?

It is funny that you think your close relationship to Jeff makes you more impartial. Maybe people should be tried by their good friends, that way their intent can be accurately taken into account.

Your slander of calling it stealing is an assumption. You have no impartiality, or else you wouldn't call Jeff an embezzler. You are forming conclusions from a minority of the pertinent information. I have no formed conclusions, just facts (that must really bother you).

[4DSZR1]

What assumption did I make? And can you please clarify how an intent to pay the money back matters? That makes stealing OK in your book?

It is funny that you think your close relationship to Jeff makes you more impartial. Maybe people should be tried by their good friends, that way their intent can be accurately taken into account.

I've been trying to stay out of this downward spiral of our club, but I have to say wow........ you must lead a pretty gawd dang perfect life, to so easily jump to moral conclusions and throw stones. And being you bring up "trying", a couple things come to mind. Aren't trials about reviewing FACTS and then making a judgment.... do you have them all? I bet not.

And, you are the exact reason we jury of of our peers and not one person off the street making knee jerk judgments.

PLEASE let this die and lets go back to talking ZR-1's

[QB93Z]

Unlike yourself, I know Jeff very well and I do know his intent. I do know with 100% certainty that he intended to pay it back when he could. I don't waste my time making assumptions like you and Rex Ruby love to do. Try posting with facts and not guesses based on assumptions. Your assumptions just create more unnecessary slander.

1990 415 Are you a member of the ZR-1 Net Registry? Since the only identifying information in your profile is "1990 ZR-1" and that you live in "Canada", we don't know who you are.

Please identify yourself. If you do so, this will probably be a more civil and meaningful conversation.

Jim

[Aurora40]

I've been trying to stay out of this downward spiral of our club, but I have to say wow........ you must lead a pretty gawd dang perfect life, to so easily jump to moral conclusions and throw stones. And being you bring up "trying", a couple things come to mind. Aren't trials about reviewing FACTS and then making a judgment.... do you have them all? I bet not.

And, you are the exact reason we jury of of our peers and not one person off the street making knee jerk judgments.

PLEASE let this die and lets go back to talking ZR-1's
Ron made it fairly clear what happened in the email he sent to registry members, are you suggesting the things he mentioned were not factual? Jeff used the club credit card to pay for personal expenses. Please point out any facts I am missing from that.

As to morals, I'll go on the record so you won't have to speculate about my life. I find it disturbing that morals and ethics have degraded to the point where people will try to excuse or apologize for anything. If someone trusted me with their money, I would not then go and spend it. If you think that makes me "gawd dang perfect", as opposed to just a normal everyday person, well that is really disappointing. Personally, I think that is a quite reasonable expectation, especially of the treasurer of a non-profit organization.

As to knee-jerk judgments, apparently a majority of the board felt what he did was wrong enough that he should resign. Are you suggesting they were not in possession of all the facts? Otherwise, it sounds like he got his jury of peers... I've formed an opinion from the facts I am aware of, just like you have. If you think facts are missing from this, fill them in (just a note, "he's my friend and I know he didn't mean it" is not a fact).

My intent was not to drag Jeff through the mud. I did not bring him into this conversation. You, however, as well as several others, did. When you conjectured that the NW denial of funding was not based on the lack of cooperation from the event planners, but rather from some petty revenge motive against Jeff.

I've yet to see anyone show any facts of this, or any evidence of this motive. The only thing I can think of, in the complete absence of anyone qualifying why they think that, is that the fact that Jeff was ousted is the "proof".

However, it seems to me that his resignation was a direct result of his actions. There are no conspirators or others to blame.

As to letting it die, I have offered to help settle the issue by putting my money where my mouth is. I will say I am surprised that folks who actually attended the event have not already done that, if they had, this would have been put to rest long ago.

[Aurora40]

Your slander of calling it stealing is an assumption. You have no impartiality, or else you wouldn't call Jeff an embezzler. You are forming conclusions from a minority of the pertinent information. I have no formed conclusions, just facts (that must really bother you).

I notice you only addressed the trivial stuff. Taking money that is not yours is OK, if there is an intent to pay it back? Yes or no.

[1990 415]

1990 415 Are you a member of the ZR-1 Net Registry? Since the only identifying information in your profile is "1990 ZR-1" and that you live in "Canada", we don't know who you are.

Please identify yourself. If you do so, this will probably be a more civil and meaningful conversation.

Jim

Jim, you know exactly who I am. We have spoken numerous times at gatherings over the last 4 years. Please don't insult me by claiming you don't know who I am. There are two 415s in Canada and you know both of the owners.

[1990 415]

I notice you only addressed the trivial stuff. Taking money that is not yours is OK, if there is an intent to pay it back? Yes or no.

I addressed you and your slander. If you consider that and yourself trivial, well that is your issue. If you actually knew ALL the pertinent information about the Jeff issue, you wouldn't continue to make your erroneous conjectures. I am through with trying to demonstrate to you that you only have part of the information. I prefer to deal with facts and not suppositions.

[1990 415]

I've been trying to stay out of this downward spiral of our club, but I have to say wow........ you must lead a pretty gawd dang perfect life, to so easily jump to moral conclusions and throw stones. And being you bring up "trying", a couple things come to mind. Aren't trials about reviewing FACTS and then making a judgment.... do you have them all? I bet not.

And, you are the exact reason we jury of of our peers and not one person off the street making knee jerk judgments.

PLEASE let this die and lets go back to talking ZR-1's
AMEN brother!=D>

[4DSZR1]

"...As to knee-jerk judgments, apparently a majority of the board felt what he did was wrong enough that he should resign. Are you suggesting they were not in possession of all the facts? Otherwise, it sounds like he got his jury of peers... I've formed an opinion from the facts I am aware of, just like you have...."

This is interesting


One, you don't know my opinion on the Jeff issue, because opinions on that have NO business in here, they don't help the issue or any effort to move forward from this issue. You do have my opinion on on PNW event, I still think we (Nick) were punished because of the Jeff issue.

Two, your statement "If you think facts are missing from this, fill them in (just a note, "he's my friend and I know he didn't mean it" is not a fact)." Fill the facts in? Are you kidding? That is exactly what you have done, too damn funny that you can say this and yet do it yourself. I guess I should have been clearer in my post. Unless you all the facts one should keep their mouth shut as their opinions and arbitrary fact filling has done nothing to improve the issue... Know the saying? You're either part of the solution or part of the problem....

Back up your words with actions and stay out of it...You and I have, as you say in one of your posts "no skin in the game"

You can have the last word, no matter what you say the issue is dead to me....I'm going out to the garage and play on my car.

Good Luck to you

[Aurora40]

One, you don't know my opinion on the Jeff issue, because opinions on that have NO business in here, they don't help the issue or any effort to move forward from this issue. You do have my opinion on on PNW event, I still think we (Nick) were punished because of the Jeff issue.
I have not suggested I know your opinion on Jeff. I am sure you have one. Everyone has an opinion. And yes, you've made your opinion on the PNW event known. What I am wondering, is what are the facts that have led to that opinion. That is the heart of what I am wondering.

I don't see how you can say the NW event funding is because of Jeff, but then also say the discussion of Jeff has no business. You, and others, have related the two.

There have been some facts put out on the NW gathering not being funded by the registry. Mom and Jerry made some quite clear, for example. I have not seen anyone address those facts, nor put more facts on the table. Instead all I see is a lot of pot-stirring about vendettas, arrogance of the board, that sort of thing.

Do we even know how many members were at the event? Nick mentioned 30 people, but it's doubtful every person was a registry member.

When there is a clear opportunity to put the facts out, and people choose instead to stir things up, it is telling.

Two, your statement "If you think facts are missing from this, fill them in (just a note, "he's my friend and I know he didn't mean it" is not a fact)." Fill the facts in? Are you kidding? That is exactly what you have done, too damn funny that you can say this and yet do it yourself. I guess I should have been clearer in my post. Unless you all the facts one should keep their mouth shut as their opinions and arbitrary fact filling has done nothing to improve the issue... Know the saying? You're either part of the solution or part of the problem....

This part I can't follow. You are saying I have filled in the facts, yet you also contend I don't have all the facts? Those things seem mutually exclusive. And how can I know if I have all the facts, if I don't know the ones I don't have?

I posted the facts I am aware of. I've notice that no one who has said "I know more facts than you" has done so. Why is that?

People who say "I know more facts than you, and my opinion is the board is full of scumbags", or "Some guy took $25k once, and our event is only $875, therefore we should be reimbursed". Part of the problem? Or part of the solution?

[Aurora40]

I addressed you and your slander. If you consider that and yourself trivial, well that is your issue. If you actually knew ALL the pertinent information about the Jeff issue, you wouldn't continue to make your erroneous conjectures. I am through with trying to demonstrate to you that you only have part of the information. I prefer to deal with facts and not suppositions.

One, it's not slander if it's true. I've posted the facts that point to my accusation. Where are yours?

Two, you have twice now ignored the question I asked you and instead focused on personal insults. Is that what you consider dealing with facts?

I have a tip for you. If you want to demonstrate that I have only part of the information, present a piece of information that I do not have. That's all it will take, and should be quite easy for you. You can even throw a couple insults in with it.

[DaveK]

Unlike yourself, I know Jeff very well and I do know his intent. I do know with 100% certainty that he intended to pay it back when he could. I don't waste my time making assumptions like you and Rex Ruby love to do. Try posting with facts and not guesses based on assumptions. Your assumptions just create more unnecessary slander.

I've had enough of reading this crap. Jeff Flint is a thief. He stole from the registry and he has stole from me personally. Guess what, I know this as a FACT. I don't give two hoots about whether this event was reimbursed or not, it wasn't held within the rules of the club, no public invitations were posted, so therefore it was a private event. I am sick of people standing up and saying what a 'good guy' jeff flint is. He's a thief, pure and simple, if it wasnt for the generosity of the board he'd have been charged.

Personally I think the board has mismanaged the affair and not been open enough about it. I think that they can improve that and they still have my support.

You guys go on about how deplorable it is that someone stole gas filler caps at Carlisle, but hey if a 'good ol boy' steals from the registry that's fine.

[ZRWON]

Come on guys...
who you want to crucify next for unacceptable conduct?

We've beat on
Jeff Flint, the crook
and NICK, the dumb party guy for weeks.

How about now we all jump on...

MOM, the ex, who yanked us fron the ashes & gave us 15 years of his life?

or Van Dorn. the Infidel, for fighting the museum when they didn't want to schedule special events just for a group of ZR-1 owners

or Ron Kreigh and the other officers who reimbursed themselves a travel stipend when attending regional events,

or ??? I'm sure you can add many more to my list
...when will it all end?

At least two on my list are gone and with all the rehashing and useless bitching I'm sure we lost many more! :-({|=

PLEASE
It's time to stop talking about the sins of the trouble makers, past and present, and remember their GOOD contributions to the Registry and ZR-1 fun events

Some of you show more tenacity than a pit bulldog when it comes to hanging on and what have we gained from it? :blahblah: :confused:

BILL STROWBRIDGE
(that's just for those who don't know me or know I too AM a member):sign10:

[Aurora40]

Some of you show more tenacity than a pit bulldog when it comes to hanging on and what have we gained from it?
That's quite a good question. What was gained? What was even the point of this thread, or the one in the regional forum?? After 8+ pages, where has it gotten us?

The NW gathering folks put together their petition for reimbursement for the event. The board weighed all the facts and decided not to fund it.

So it was put out here, in public, for what reason? Either because the poster and people involved felt it was unfair and wanted to make the public aware of the unfairness, or it was just to stir up some **** and slander the board.

If the goal was to create awareness, where are the facts? We've heard the facts from the board, the event was not announced, the information requested prior to the event was not sent, the number of registry members that were there is not even known (or even guessable, where are the event pictures?)

The folks upset with this decision have presented this: the board is arrogant, and they have it in for Jeff Flint and anyone he hangs out with. That's it. That's the sum total of facts presented. Oh, and we've been told there are secret extra facts that some people know, and that's why they know (better than us) that the board is full of jerks.

If you felt you were unjustly treated, then facts would be your best friend. You'd want us to know them so we could be equally outraged.

But after 8 pages, I don't think that's the goal. It's just to try to stir up any sort of resentment and disharmony possible, and get in some slander on the board members they disagree with. They are so obstinate that guys like "1990 415" would rather argue than simply state his name when asked!

Bill, you are one of these people. You've slung **** from the beginning, made reference to the secret facts you are privy to, and now that some **** has gotten on you too, you want us to "all just get along".

If you really feel that way, how about an apology to the board members that you've labeled as arrogant, either privately or publicly? I bet that would go a long way to resolving the issue.

And I'll just state again, to Nick, that I am more than happy to help offset your costs, to help resolve the issue. I know you stated you don't want my money since I was not involved. However, I don't think you should feel that way. I'm offering to help of my own accord, you aren't taking from me. I think it's great you guys could do a get-together with some ZR-1 folks, and would be glad to help out with it. PM an add'y and I'll mail you a check. :cheers:

[RICKYRJ1]

Jim, you know exactly who I am. We have spoken numerous times at gatherings over the last 4 years. Please don't insult me by claiming you don't know who I am. There are two 415s in Canada and you know both of the owners.

I don't beleive he meant it as a insult. I think it was a gentlemans way of saying to put more profile info so others know who you are. :cheers:

[vandornjim]

Come on guys...
who you want to crucify next for unacceptable conduct?

We've beat on
Jeff Flint, the crook
and NICK, the dumb party guy for weeks.

How about now we all jump on...

MOM, the ex, who yanked us fron the ashes & gave us 15 years of his life?

or Van Dorn. the Infidel, for fighting the museum when they didn't want to schedule special events just for a group of ZR-1 owners

or Ron Kreigh and the other officers who reimbursed themselves a travel stipend when attending regional events,

Oh WIlliam. You know what happens when you mention my name...:)

Who gives a good gosh darn where the food came from, or who the caterer is related to? Would you be happier if she bought it at a high end store and charged more for putting on the event? By the way, where did you "hear" where the caterer got her food? Who is the rumor monger, anyway?


You guys know I shoot pretty straight: I don?t assume, guess or speculate. I also have a pretty tough hide since being around for some 20 years...

Let's not sugar coat this issue, shall we?

Recently there was an issue of misappropriation of funds. Some on the Board elected to cover it up for the benefit of the Club. All involved seem to get injured when these problems arise no matter who is to blame but now it has come to a head. The initial problem was:

Jeff Flint?s Version To You

Jeff goes on a trip and a check bounces while he?s on the road. He has to use his ZR-1 Net Registry expense card because he?s stranded and without any funds. Upon returning he contacts the Registry and tells them of his unfortunate circumstance. He immediately refunds the money but they won?t accept his actions and they demand he resign.

Actual Version as presented to the Board (Closed Door Meeting).

Jeff declares he was left stranded on the road after a problem with his bank. He uses the Registry?s card as a last resort because he has absolutely no other money, cards or funds of any kind. He has no friends or family that will help him, he?s in dire straights. He runs up in excess of $1,200 in charges. Upon returning he DOES NOT call (or email) any Board member and instead remains quiet about the charges until they are accidentally discovered by a Board member some months later. When confronted, Jeff uses the emergency excuse but doesn?t have an answer why he failed to get prior approval, nor remedy his debt to the Registry?s Treasury earlier. He voluntarily resigns as Treasurer. Months go by until he repays his debt.

The actual facts are (Based on bank statements):

The charges were made primarily to purchase auto parts for his business over a period of time of several months. He never was stranded. The amount was eventually repaid. Why was it repaid? Because it was stolen in the first place. There were some on the board that wanted to pursue Felony criminal charges, including embezzlement, grand theft and/or fraud. But in the Club?s best interest, eventually it was (arguably) decided to allow full restitution and ask for his resignation. Done deal. Or is it?

Dave Bright, having finally had enough of the turmoil, resigned from the Board and the squabbling. I know the feeling. I?ve experienced it myself. When it isn?t fun anymore, why do it? Besides, I'm sure Bright felt betrayed.

So now the same ex-Treasurer hosts a BBQ. The Registry is contacted and they agree to help out with expenses. But the event wasn?t advertised, it wasn?t added to the events schedule, nor was it made public. A couple guys here think that's the Registry's responsibility. I think not. I do all the preparations and inviting for anything we do here. Word must've gotten out seeing how many showed up here in May (225). So Jeff (Nick or whoever) invited a few friends over and had a nice afternoon. 20 or so (members) and few friends attended? Good for you guys! More should do the same.

But does the Registry have to pick up the tab for every get together? Considering the source of the invoice and the amounts within, I'd be asking some serious questions too especially when a person puts his/her professional and personal integrity on the line for a few bucks. Leopards don't change their spots...

The air has hardly cleared from the misappropriation issues, when an invoice is submitted to the Registry for $875. Excuse me? Man, I just fed 225 here last May, all you could eat, kegs of beer, and all the trimmings. Some say it was mighty tasty. Our food cost was about $1,200 and we never asked the Registry for a dime.

But while we're talking about it, what does 20 people eat for $875??? That?s a whopping $43.75 EACH!! (Oh, did I forget to mention the invoice was from the Ex-Treasurer?s sister and a non-existent company? Will it ever stop?)

You know, some of you might think I?m just kissing up to my ?ol buddy Dave Bright or maybe Ron Kreigh? The fact of the matter is for whatever reason(s) I lost my friendship with Dave sometime long ago. I?m not sure what happened, but Dave and I quit speaking a few years back. He hasn?t ever been to my shop even when in town that I can remember. In addition, I?ve noticed small things like our shop isn?t listed on the Registry?s website in the ?ZR-1 Shop? listings. Imagine that. One of the oldest and most knowledgeable ZR-1 shops in the country not listed.

At one of the Gatherings, one of my customers and his wife sat at a table with several Board members including Dave B. and Ron K. while they lambasted our shop. Someone even called me an ?infidel?. All the while I had Ron?s car in my shop out of the rain because he had wrecked it that weeknd and the window was broken. I had him remove it the next morning AFTER we had a little heart to heart chat?.while it was raining?

Was I pissed? Have hurt feelings? Of course. Who wouldn?t? Was I ready to quit? Nope. Here?s why.

You don?t have to LIKE someone to respect them. It doesn?t always have to be a popularity contest. I look first and foremost at integrity, what a person has accomplished, who they really are. Now in the case above, I might have been a little disappointed,(OK, maybe a lot disappointed), and I could have hated them for life, never came to another event, quit volunteering our facility each and every year. But leopards don't change their spots. Few on this Earth have done more for the ZR-1 owner?s community than Dave Bright. Through thick and thin he has kept all of us in touch, organized information and for the most part, been a friend in times of need to most all of you. Fortunately he's still in the background.

Friendships, even some lost ones, are still worth something. Once a loyal friend, you get the benefit of the doubt, I?ll take the blame for whatever I did (or didn?t) do in my case. It must've been significant.

Several years ago, some of you were present when I had a little disagreement with some of the NCM personnel when they told us we weren?t welcome to come to Bowling Green at our regular time. Roc, the new events director was new and didn?t fully understand the situation, so I helped to educate him. Some of you disagreed with my actions but in my opinion (and passion) it had to be done. I made at least 2 real enemies in Roc and Adam that night but I also didn't wait and hide behind a keyboard later.

About a year ago, I got a call from Roc asking me to lunch. We chatted for 2 hours about this and that, who we were and where we came from, shared some thoughts and that was it. I respected him for that gesture. And as you might have seen this past May, Roc, his staff, and the Registry volunteers (Dave Johnson) couldn?t have been more hospitable and thorough with their preparations. They came a long way from BBQ sandwhiches out of a cooler! They earned both my admiration and respect which is why I personally thanked him in front of all of you. Roc had the balls to look at the big picture. Adam and I too have made amends and work together from time to time with various events.

So some here now want to take their ball and go home. Go ahead, good luck, and have fun. But we?ve been through this before. Some want to criticize the leadership of the club. Fine. Either leave or do something about it. Nominate or volunteer, get elected and do it better. But remember, sometimes it ain?t as easy as it looks.

I think Gramps said it best. ?I probably wasn?t the most liked person when I retired from the company, but I?d like to think I was one of the most respected.?

It took me many years to fully understand that...

Dave Bright. You have my respect. You earned it a long time ago. You can stick me in the eye, just don?t kick my beagle?(she?s all mine!) ;)
?The Infidel?:proud:

[ZRWON]

That's quite a good question. What was gained? What was even the point of this thread, or the one in the regional forum?? After 8+ pages, where has it gotten us?.....

But after 8 pages, I don't think that's the goal. It's just to try to stir up any sort of resentment and disharmony possible, ...

Bill, you are one of these people. You've slung **** from the beginning, made reference to the secret facts you are privy to, and now that some **** you want us to "all just get along".

If you really feel that way, how about an apology to the board members that you've labeled as arrogant, either privately or publicly? I bet that would go a long way to resolving the issue...

Yes, as Aurora40 points out, I too have comitted sins and for that I apologize.

Please forgive me of my transgressions. I will strive to be a better registry member in the future.
mea culpa, mea culpa :worship:

Now, maybe someday you will also remember me for my good things

[Rex Ruby]

Oh WIlliam. You know what happens when you mention my name...:)




You guys know I shoot pretty straight: I don?t assume, guess or speculate. I also have a pretty tough hide since being around for some 20 years...

Let's not sugar coat this issue, shall we?

Recently there was an issue of misappropriation of funds. Some on the Board elected to cover it up for the benefit of the Club. All involved seem to get injured when these problems arise no matter who is to blame but now it has come to a head. The initial problem was:

Jeff Flint?s Version To You

Jeff goes on a trip and a check bounces while he?s on the road. He has to use his ZR-1 Net Registry expense card because he?s stranded and without any funds. Upon returning he contacts the Registry and tells them of his unfortunate circumstance. He immediately refunds the money but they won?t accept his actions and they demand he resign.

Actual Version as presented to the Board (Closed Door Meeting).

Jeff declares he was left stranded on the road after a problem with his bank. He uses the Registry?s card as a last resort because he has absolutely no other money, cards or funds of any kind. He has no friends or family that will help him, he?s in dire straights. He runs up in excess of $1,200 in charges. Upon returning he DOES NOT call (or email) any Board member and instead remains quiet about the charges until they are accidentally discovered by a Board member some months later. When confronted, Jeff uses the emergency excuse but doesn?t have an answer why he failed to get prior approval, nor remedy his debt to the Registry?s Treasury earlier. He voluntarily resigns as Treasurer. Months go by until he repays his debt.

The actual facts are (Based on bank statements):

The charges were made primarily to purchase auto parts for his business over a period of time of several months. He never was stranded. The amount was eventually repaid. Why was it repaid? Because it was stolen in the first place. There were some on the board that wanted to pursue Felony criminal charges, including embezzlement, grand theft and/or fraud. But in the Club?s best interest, eventually it was (arguably) decided to allow full restitution and ask for his resignation. Done deal. Or is it?

Dave Bright, having finally had enough of the turmoil, resigned from the Board and the squabbling. I know the feeling. I?ve experienced it myself. When it isn?t fun anymore, why do it? Besides, I'm sure Bright felt betrayed.

So now the same ex-Treasurer hosts a BBQ. The Registry is contacted and they agree to help out with expenses. But the event wasn?t advertised, it wasn?t added to the events schedule, nor was it made public. A couple guys here think that's the Registry's responsibility. I think not. I do all the preparations and inviting for anything we do here. Word must've gotten out seeing how many showed up here in May (225). So Jeff (Nick or whoever) invited a few friends over and had a nice afternoon. 20 or so (members) and few friends attended? Good for you guys! More should do the same.

But does the Registry have to pick up the tab for every get together? Considering the source of the invoice and the amounts within, I'd be asking some serious questions too especially when a person puts his/her professional and personal integrity on the line for a few bucks. Leopards don't change their spots...

The air has hardly cleared from the misappropriation issues, when an invoice is submitted to the Registry for $875. Excuse me? Man, I just fed 225 here last May, all you could eat, kegs of beer, and all the trimmings. Some say it was mighty tasty. Our food cost was about $1,200 and we never asked the Registry for a dime.

But while we're talking about it, what does 20 people eat for $875??? That?s a whopping $43.75 EACH!! (Oh, did I forget to mention the invoice was from the Ex-Treasurer?s sister and a non-existent company? Will it ever stop?)

You know, some of you might think I?m just kissing up to my ?ol buddy Dave Bright or maybe Ron Kreigh? The fact of the matter is for whatever reason(s) I lost my friendship with Dave sometime long ago. I?m not sure what happened, but Dave and I quit speaking a few years back. He hasn?t ever been to my shop even when in town that I can remember. In addition, I?ve noticed small things like our shop isn?t listed on the Registry?s website in the ?ZR-1 Shop? listings. Imagine that. One of the oldest and most knowledgeable ZR-1 shops in the country not listed.

At one of the Gatherings, one of my customers and his wife sat at a table with several Board members including Dave B. and Ron K. while they lambasted our shop. Someone even called me an ?infidel?. All the while I had Ron?s car in my shop out of the rain because he had wrecked it that weeknd and the window was broken. I had him remove it the next morning AFTER we had a little heart to heart chat?.while it was raining?

Was I pissed? Have hurt feelings? Of course. Who wouldn?t? Was I ready to quit? Nope. Here?s why.

You don?t have to LIKE someone to respect them. It doesn?t always have to be a popularity contest. I look first and foremost at integrity, what a person has accomplished, who they really are. Now in the case above, I might have been a little disappointed,(OK, maybe a lot disappointed), and I could have hated them for life, never came to another event, quit volunteering our facility each and every year. But leopards don't change their spots. Few on this Earth have done more for the ZR-1 owner?s community than Dave Bright. Through thick and thin he has kept all of us in touch, organized information and for the most part, been a friend in times of need to most all of you. Fortunately he's still in the background.

Friendships, even some lost ones, are still worth something. Once a loyal friend, you get the benefit of the doubt, I?ll take the blame for whatever I did (or didn?t) do in my case. It must've been significant.

Several years ago, some of you were present when I had a little disagreement with some of the NCM personnel when they told us we weren?t welcome to come to Bowling Green at our regular time. Roc, the new events director was new and didn?t fully understand the situation, so I helped to educate him. Some of you disagreed with my actions but in my opinion (and passion) it had to be done. I made at least 2 real enemies in Roc and Adam that night but I also didn't wait and hide behind a keyboard later.

About a year ago, I got a call from Roc asking me to lunch. We chatted for 2 hours about this and that, who we were and where we came from, shared some thoughts and that was it. I respected him for that gesture. And as you might have seen this past May, Roc, his staff, and the Registry volunteers (Dave Johnson) couldn?t have been more hospitable and thorough with their preparations. They came a long way from BBQ sandwhiches out of a cooler! They earned both my admiration and respect which is why I personally thanked him in front of all of you. Roc had the balls to look at the big picture. Adam and I too have made amends and work together from time to time with various events.

So some here now want to take their ball and go home. Go ahead, good luck, and have fun. But we?ve been through this before. Some want to criticize the leadership of the club. Fine. Either leave or do something about it. Nominate or volunteer, get elected and do it better. But remember, sometimes it ain?t as easy as it looks.

I think Gramps said it best. ?I probably wasn?t the most liked person when I retired from the company, but I?d like to think I was one of the most respected.?

It took me many years to fully understand that...

Dave Bright. You have my respect. You earned it a long time ago. You can stick me in the eye, just don?t kick my beagle?(she?s all mine!) ;)
?The Infidel?:proud:



Jim, GREAT post and I believe it tells the recent events very accurately.
The part about the NCM was nice to hear as I've heard it second hand, nice to hear it from the source. Thanks for taking the time to share that.
John Porter

[DaveK]

Personally I'd say Jim Van Dorn for president - of anything! :cheers:

[tccrab]

Personally I'd say Jim Van Dorn for president - of anything! :cheers:

I'll second that motion.

TomC
'Crabs

[bobbyhi]

Thanks Jim for the open and honest post. I hope that everyone who is in on the discussion will read it and take it to heart.......

Thanks again....

[4DSZR1]

Great Post Jim. Thanks for sharing!

Rick

[Hammer]

Dave K and Tom, are you pursuing your nomination with Jim. Better get on it if so. Only 10 days left. GL

[ZRWON]

I'll second that motion.

TomC
'Crabs
Hey Tom get real...We don't need no stinking Pirate running this ship
:Eagle:
We need an eagle:

"A true leader has the confidence to stand alone, the courage to make tough decisions, and the compassion to listen to the needs of others. He does not set out to be a leader, but becomes one by the quality of his actions and the integrity of his intent. In the end, leaders are much like eagles...they don't flock, you find them one at a time...." , JVD

[tccrab]

Hey Tom get real...We don't need no stinking Pirate running this ship
:Eagle:
We need an eagle:

"A true leader has the confidence to stand alone, the courage to make tough decisions, and the compassion to listen to the needs of others. He does not set out to be a leader, but becomes one by the quality of his actions and the integrity of his intent. In the end, leaders are much like eagles...they don't flock, you find them one at a time...." , JVD

Bill:

I'm confident that good 'ol "PegLeg VanDorn" is much too smart to even think about running this august organization. (how is the leg healing JVD?)

I'm pretty sure running this rag tag band of megalomaniacs, tyrants and misfits would be just about as much fun and as productive as herding cats.

Tom

[vandornjim]

Hey Tom get real...We don't need no stinking Pirate running this ship
:-D
No siree Bob, I mean Bill. I've had my share of that stuff. I ran our Corvette Club for a few years, started the Grand Sport Registry, Pirate stuff, etc.etc. It's a lot of work gang. The board is a committment and those who serve the club should be commended and appreciated (under normal circumstances).

But there's always room for change once in a while, new ideas, new blood, new visions. Some people think a change has to be a negative. I think it can be very positive. Besides, it's not fair for some to have to do all of the work.

I guess the hardest but most rewarding job I ever had was that of Dad. I used to say I couldn't wait 'til they hit 18 so I could be done with them. Yeah right. But it is nice when they tell you later you did a good job. :)

No, you guys do your thing and leave me to BBQ'ing and keeping the beer cold. I'll try not to screw it up.
:wave:

[DaveK]

I was thinking more of a replacement for Obama - can't think of a better use for a Pirate Infidel ;)

[GrayZ]

After wading through this thread, all I can say is ...wow....

Nice Post JVD :cheers:

Right before BG this year, i had the opportunity to talk with quite a few of our
registry members that were traveling by or calling, about the....... "flint caper"

The conclusion or the gist of what i got out of those discussions were

If one does such an act and is indeed innocent, why not personally STATE the facts as they happened, explain thyself.

AND...make a 'Formal' apology, to the board, and all the members of the registry.

Because whether one intends, to pay back a sum of capital they are intrusted with, and after a few months, they have not mentioned a word about it, to anyone else on the board, well, ask yourself is that acceptable, no,i'm afraid it's actually criminal.


Quite simple actually.

I've seen no posts from Jeff, no defense of accusations. Nothing....Nada.

It's a shame, really, a young guy with a passion and Knowledge for cars, and the ZR1.

Ruining his reputation, for a little over a thousand bucks.

And.... if the board swept the info...under the rug, so to speak, as JVD stated, that Jeff was never stranded, but used the credit cars to purchase parts for his business. well....i'm quite suprised, in these days of scandal, everywhere, they would take the chance, of making themselves targets for further problems, after all, they were trying to clean up a mess.

The reason this issue is still being discussed, is there has been no closure,

The facts are muddled, but, since, JVD's post, No rebuttals have come forthwith, so, i assume, what he posted is the truth.

I sure wish everyone would not resort to name calling, the elections are in a week or so.
Don't like something, change it. Vote..express thyself.

Sincerely,

Keith Moudy

[1990 415]

KEITH, JVD's post is 70% correct. It is not my place to fill in the blanks. I agree with you Keith, Vote this fall and bring about some positive change. I do find it amazing that everyone takes JVD's version as gospel.

[GrayZ]

KEITH, JVD's post is 70% correct. It is not my place to fill in the blanks. I agree with you Keith, Vote this fall and bring about some positive change. I do find it amazing that everyone takes JVD's version as gospel.

Kurt, there is a problem,
what will fianally put this whole nasty mess to bed,

Is for Someone to explain...the 30% you are referring to as filling in the blanks.

As far as Jvd goes, my dealings, with him, have been, he's treated me
exactly the way i would want to be treated.

Just because someone is on the board, in my opinion, does not give anyone the right, to hide club info, that is causing such a rift, throughout the community. Being a board member is a thankless job, as most here will attest. That being said, it's time to throw it all out on the table...IMHO.

If i personally were being accused of misgivings that I did not perform,
you can bet the bank, I would confront my accusers.
no more...no less.

Keith

[Rex Ruby]

The conclusion or the gist of what i got out of those discussions were

If one does such an act and is indeed innocent, why not personally STATE the facts as they happened, explain thyself.

AND...make a 'Formal' apology, to the board, and all the members of the registry.

Because whether one intends, to pay back a sum of capital they are intrusted with, and after a few months, they have not mentioned a word about it, to anyone else on the board, well, ask yourself is that acceptable, no,i'm afraid it's actually criminal.


Quite simple actually.

I've seen no posts from Jeff, no defense of accusations. Nothing....Nada.

It's a shame, really, a young guy with a passion and Knowledge for cars, and the ZR1.

Ruining his reputation, for a little over a thousand bucks.

And.... if the board swept the info...under the rug, so to speak, as JVD stated, that Jeff was never stranded, but used the credit cars to purchase parts for his business. well....i'm quite suprised, in these days of scandal, everywhere, they would take the chance, of making themselves targets for further problems, after all, they were trying to clean up a mess.

The reason this issue is still being discussed, is there has been no closure,

The facts are muddled, but, since, JVD's post, No rebuttals have come forthwith, so, i assume, what he posted is the truth.


Agreed. From the begining I had thought that if Jeff manned up to his actions he could save some face. His no response to me indicates guilt and lack of character.

KEITH, JVD's post is 70% correct. It is not my place to fill in the blanks. I agree with you Keith, Vote this fall and bring about some positive change. I do find it amazing that everyone takes JVD's version as gospel.
Wrong, IMHO.
It's any member and every member's place to bring the true facts to light. The board certainly hasn't stepped up to that. It's not fair for you to say JVD is only 70% correct without backing it up.
In all fairness let's hear your 30%
Even if he is only 70% correct, still makes it a bad situation.

[vandornjim]

KEITH, JVD's post is 70% correct. It is not my place to fill in the blanks. I agree with you Keith, Vote this fall and bring about some positive change. I do find it amazing that everyone takes JVD's version as gospel.

ok. I'VE HAD IT!!:mad:

I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO HUMILIATED IN MY ENTIRE LIFE!!!!

I HAVE BEEN CALLED MANY THINGS IN MY LIFE TIME
SOB, SOG, A$$, DUMBA$$, AND LOTS OF MUTHA (YOU KNOW WHAT).

I have NEVER EVER been called a preacher, reverend, or priest!!!

I'm waiting for an apology.........still waiting......:p

[RICKYRJ1]

ok. I'VE HAD IT!!:mad:

I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO HUMILIATED IN MY ENTIRE LIFE!!!!

I HAVE BEEN CALLED MANY THINGS IN MY LIFE TIME
SOB, SOG, A$$, DUMBA$$, AND LOTS OF MUTHA (YOU KNOW WHAT).

I have NEVER EVER been called a preacher, reverend, or priest!!!

I'm waiting for an apology.........still waiting......:p


93 post and I finally have something to laugh at :dancing

[FU]

93 post and I finally have something to laugh at :dancing

Kinda has ring to it "Father Jame's VanDorn" (said with a wicked Irish accent) I like it !

[-=Jeff=-]

I've seen no posts from Jeff, no defense of accusations. Nothing....Nada.


I thought Jeff Was banned from this forum when all that crap happened..

[ZRWON]

I thought Jeff Was banned from this forum when all that crap happened..
What's to be said...just more rehashing??

I had hoped JVD's post would have buried this dead horse

When will the candidates start sending us presents etc to charm us to get our vote??

[-=Jeff=-]

What's to be said...just more rehashing??

I had hoped JVD's post would have buried this dead horse

When will the candidates start sending us presents etc to charm us to get our vote??

All I was doing was commented to what Keith said, where Jeff has not posted.

It is too bad, this happened and is over 10 pages of what was said (or thought to be said)

As for board members, it is an election year, if you don't like/want them in office, vote them out. if they are running uncontested, then step up and run..

I was both VP and President of my Local Corvette club, I know what some of this is like, but cannot imagine how to handle one across the country and over the internet.

[FU]

Nuff is enoughPLEASE let's move on....for the club :mrgreen::mrgreen:

http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album01/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg








And don't get any idea's about mounting my horse Keith !

[zr1mom]

I have been pretty quiet since resigning my position earlier this year. I have however been reading all the emails, forum posts, etc. and feel some things need to be said. With any controversy people tend to take sides and always blames the other side for all the problems. Today even in the corporate world nobody is liable for their actions nobody takes responsibility, it's why the economy is the way it is today.

With the internet information tends to flow freely and quickly and with that you always have to deal with the problem of misinformation getting pass around mixed in with the truth. Then what is truth? Truth is usually whatever you want to believe and very few ever know the complete truth, the ones that do know the truth will usually never admit it as they themselves are usually in the middle of whatever controversy is going on.

As most of you know I go by the nickname of "Mom" strange as it might be there is a reason behind it. It's a nickname I have carried for nearly 15 years. It's one I'm also proud of because Mom's are special people.

The title of Mom comes with great reasonability. Real Moms raise our kids; they take care of the household, they are teachers, they are chefs, they are financial experts, we run to them when we are hurt and today they have to work as well. They work 7 by 24 and happy when they have 30 minutes to close their eyes.

But most importantly when it comes to our children Moms instill right and wrong. The building blocks our children need in life as we grow into adults. We are taught not to lie, we are taught not to steal, and we are taught to respect others. As children we are punish when we break any of these rules. Being children punishment might be nothing more than a slap on the hand or time out in our rooms. As adults punishment can mean loss of a job or even time in prison. Because by the time we are adults it's assumed we know right from wrong.

So as adults do we never lie? Of course not, you might just say we get better at it. When a child eats a piece of chocolate cake and Mom walks in and sees chocolate around Johnny's mouth and ask Johnny if he just ate a piece of chocolate cake and Johnny says no Mom. Mom of course knows that he is lying and knows she has to punish him not so much for eating the piece of cake, that's what children do, but for lying. This begins the building blocks of teaching our kids right from wrong and knowing sooner or later you will be caught.

As adults we still lie but we call them little white lies. So what is a little white lie? When going out for the evening our wife turns to us and says "does this dress make me look fat?" Men we know the answer, "no honey you look great!" Is it a lie? The wife already knows the truth, she's not dressing up for the public, she's dressing up for you and she wants to know you appreciate it. But lie under oath or lie on your resume and the outcome is much different.

So back to why they call me "Mom". It's because like a Mom I always tried to look out for my members. Unfortunately like children from time to time we do have members who get out of line and on rare occasions need to be punish such as removal from the ZR-1 Net or the ZR-1 Net Registry forum or the club itself. Most times it's nothing more than a slap on the hand or a timeout from the Net. True adults will realize they were wrong, admit to it and move on. However there are a few who will never believe they made a mistake or were wrong and will try and cover it up, blame others and twist the truth. And it's not because they are uneducated or didn't have parents, we have all seen salesmen lie, lawyers lie, Generals lie, and even Presidents lie. We're human, we make mistakes but a real man will admit their mistakes. We all make mistakes no one is perfect but those that live by the basic rules of right and wrong and stand up and admit when are wrong earn respect. Respect is man's greatest aspect for without it we are nothing. Once respect is lost it nearly impossible to get it back.

So when I started the ZR-1 Net back in '94 and built the web site I did so in the hopes of bringing ZR-1 owners closer together, to help one another. At the time we had the ZR-1 Registry run by Larry Merow who I respected. I didn't start the ZR-1 Net and build the web site to compete with Larry I did this to complement what he already had. The ZR-1 Registry was an international club but was run as a local club. Commutation was done only though a newsletter delivered by the US Post Office or by phone. I wanted to bring the club into the 21st century by using email and the web. Unfortunately Larry didn't see it that way; he saw it as more of a threat. But I still respected the man for what he had accomplished. The world moves forward, technology was pushing us forward faster than ever but Larry didn't either see it or didn't want to see it. Show me one Corvette club today that doesn't use email and the internet, that doesn't have a web site or even a forum. When companies don't move forward they die.

In starting the ZR-1 Net and web site I never took a dime, back then and ISP was very expensive. I took entire vacations just to work on the web site, rebuilding it several times to make it better each time. I read countless emails on the Net and answer every email sent to me by a member. Eventually costs caught up and I started a "Gold" membership or lifetime membership and collected a fee. When I decided to start the ZR-1 Net Registry and cancel the Gold membership I offered and paid back ever member who wanted their money back.

I spent endless hours building this club and the first priority item on my list was to make this a "members" club, a non-profit club an open door to the members. So that each of "you" could have a voice. My goal was to make it the best club out there. I have since had other big clubs copy my template. Again with never a thought on taking a dime even though I could have easily made it for profit.

So this issue about board members getting "paid" to attend events was only done recently for a couple of reasons. One if you looked at past election years it was nearly impossible to get anyone to run for office. Another reason as was mention is as board members when we attend an event we don't get to enjoy all the activities like you as members. I have seen many of our past board members sit for hours behind a table. I myself who have attended the NCM gatherings since '95 have maybe tour the NCM 3 times. Same with Carlisle, I would maybe get a couple of hours each day to look around. I spent most of my time talking to you which I truly enjoyed because to me it is all about you and making sure you were being taken care of. So yes we try to help offset some of the costs as well as make it an incentive for board members to attend these events by given them some money which is only a token to amount of time and effort these people do behind the curtain and on their personal time. If this job is so easy then why out of ~700 members we can't even find 7 to run for office?

So why did I leave? For 2 reasons, first I left because my heart was broken, I put my heart and soul into this club and the recent events and the actions of some of the members was more than I could bare. The other reason was my family/personal life. My uncle passed away, my son-in-law had a massive heart attack and we almost lost him, a son graduating college, a new job and some medical problems of my own.

I have step down but not truly left, I have step from in front of the curtain to behind it. I still put in 10 to 20 hours a week. I still care and will always support this club and you.

My last point, some of you have attacked this club, posting false information, and making accusations that are not true. I will agree that certain events could have been handle better. We are volunteers you voted us in trusting us to make the right and best decisions for the club. We felt the decisions we did make at the time were best for the club. Some of you think we sit back here throwing money to each other, making up rules to suit us, trying to hide the truth. That's not the world I come from and furthest from the truth. I may not agree with every board member every time but I respect what they have to say. This whole treasury thing was a very delicate issue. We are not some large corporation with a bag full of lawyers. We are members of a club just like you trying to make the best decision with what tools we had. It is a low point in our clubs history but it's time to move on. The foundation is still strong. We will learn from our mistakes and as the saying goes it will make us even stronger.

Some of you also think like a local club, where all the members meet once a month at some hall or members house where a decision and vote can be quickly taken. We are an international club with as many as 700 members, in different time zones, different cultures. Just having an election is a task in itself. But the fact is we have elections, we are a free nation sort of speak. Unlike past clubs you have a say, you can make a difference, which is what the ZR-1 Net Registry is all about!!!!!!!!

You have two choices people, support "your" club help us make it better by not just criticizing but with constructive ideas or you can leave. Here in America we have these choices.

God bless America! :flag:

[A26B]

:usa:
Ooo Rah!!
Very well stated Mom.

[-=Jeff=-]

Mom, thanks for the post. It is great to hear from a recent board member and one still involved (even if behind the curtain now).

[ZRWON]

Thanks MOM and I for one hope you at least stay behind that curtain another 15 years or more :worship: :saluting:

Bill

[Z Factor]

:hal:

I'm sorry to hear about your families loss and troubles, and you have my sincere condolences.

Thanks for taking the time to compose such a thoughtful and informative post. While it may seem at times that not too many of us appreciate your past and current contributions, rest assured you have the support of the overwhelming majority of club members, forum members, and ZR-1 enthusiasts in general. Like a family we sometimes have squabbles and disagreements, but like a family we still care for each other at the end of the day. The current dissension will pass in short order because the positives far outweigh any small bumps on the current stretch of road. You have certainly earned the nickname of Mom and will always be thought of in the highest regard.

JIM
:cheers:

[youngrm]

wow interesting stuff

thought I'd add my two cents

Untouched in the multiple previous pages is/was the behavior of jeff flint regarding his business practices over many years involving fellow zr1 owners and culminating with me...check my post(s) if still accessable on the board...

When I had enough with jeff in Jan/Feb '10. I informed him credible legal action would be initiated against him, as part of this I advised board members to inspect their books...and the rest is history.

Much of the angst from private and public emails and post(s) regarding board members/forum members etc. arise from the fact (review the posts) or interview your fellow forum members...

from the fact that Jeff had a LONG history of this type of behavior AND that it had been tolerated by various parties who should have shut it down...It's not just a credit card issue

[Hammer]

Mom,

I am truly sorry to hear of your loss as well as all the other problems in your life. These types of things weigh heavily on a person after awhile, especially when they happen so close together. I certainly hope 2011 is a much better year for you.

Thanks again Mom.

John

[ZR1FUN]

Mom:

It has beena long time since I called anyone by the honorific of Mom. You are a MOM to me in the truest sense of the word.

Although a relativly new ZR1 owner and forum member, I really truly appreciated what I observed were your enduring and tremendous efforts on behalf of the club. You have my complete admiration and respect.

Thank you for the in depth post. It helps. I am sure very few of us fully realized the magnitude of your effors.

Doug
ZR1FUN

:cheers: