My first attempt at timing the LT5 camshafts

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Well, after installing the camshafts to factory settings and determining TDC, getting a degree wheel mounted, making a metal bar to bolt on magnetic base, a dial indicator with homemade extension tip, and installing a indicator on the block I was ready. I screwed up drilling the hole in the plate and had to end up on top of the camshaft hold down and not ideal. I don't have a drill press and it would have meant going back to the auto craft shop on the post to drill another hole and it worked anyway.

Thanks Pete for the late night call I had to make when I initally got the camshafts and forgot that since I don't have stock camshafts it was not going to line up so easily like the factory manual and CPT video indicated.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC02597.jpg

I probably should have waited and not installed the front cover, but I did not have the heads or camshafts then and wanted to keep moving on this. So after establishing TDC before installing the heads I set up the locations on the torsional damper with the timing tab and locked everything down so I would not have to find TDC with the heads on. By the way, the tape was removed from the intake and exhaust ports during the process.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC02598.jpg

So there are many ways to do this and just threaded some welding rod that I found at the local hardware store with a 4-48 UNF die and cut to length. I was going to do the curve around the camshaft but found I did not need to by catching an area to the immediate side of the camshaft lobe.

It took me awhile intially in the learning process of this and special thanks to information from Marc Haibeck's site to give me the basic idea and more importantly the details from Jim Milstead off this Registry site that explained how to make the adjustments once I found the factory setting was 2 degrees off where I wanted to be for the intake cam.

I went around and around to get the feel and figure out the MOP (maximum opening position) and then got it down to where I feel comfortable and the other three will go much quicker. The bottom line is it was not as difficult as I thought it was going to be or maybe I am more capable than I think I am. I can see why shops would charge quite of bit of labor to do this.

I'm not done with the first cam (left intake) even though I have it adjusted and checked/confirmed a few times. I need to wait until I get help to have to back of the camshaft held for my final torque with new bolt and lots of loctite (not too much of course). Hopefully we can do the final torquing without moving the setting or will be doing it all over again. I did this by myself so it took longer. I know if I had help when making the adjustments it would have been much easier since it does not take much to move the setting once the bolt is loosened and I had to do it more than once to get the right setting and then lock it down with one arm holding the back end and the other tightening the sprocket bolt. The bottom line is get someone to help you......period. I just did it myself to get used to before having my friend come over and went farther than I had planned to; I was just going to set it up and check where the factory setting were at.

Well, I just thought I would share my novice point of view on my attempt with timing the LT5 camshafts. I'm going learn more about this over the next few days and figure out better ways of doing everthing. :cheers:

Craig

[Paul Workman]

Well, I just thought I would share my novice point of view on my attempt with timing the LT5 camshafts. I'm going learn more about this over the next few days and figure out better ways of doing everthing. :cheers:

Craig

You go dude!:thumbsup: Serendipity...a marvelous teacher! And, you'll get the satisfaction of knowing the LT5 pretty well. :cheers:

Do you have a target date for turning the key???

P.

[HIZNHRZ]

The bottom line is it was not as difficult as I thought it was going to be or maybe I am more capable than I think I am.
Craig

I think the latter...you don't give yourself enough credit dude. There are guys who work their entire careers around engines and cars who have never been this deep inside an engine much less an LT5. Your car will be back on the road because YOU are making it happen. Once you get the cams set up I have to believe the rest is all down hill. Great job!

[Scrrem]

Awsome Craig!! Great documentation. Keep'm coming!!
Rich

[HAWAIIZR-1]

P, Scott and Rich,

Thanks for the comments and vote of confidence. It sure is a good feeling to build one of these motors even though there were many times filled with frustration (mostly trying to get the parts and the cost). It is kind of crazy when I think about it but not much choice with the cost and logisitics of shipping it to a builder on the mainland.

I'm not sure when I will be able to turn the key, but my target is before the end of August. I still don't have the plenum, IHs and TB back yet so hopefully that does not hold me up. I would like to drop the motor back in by next week at the latest so we'll see.

I'll keep you folks posted as I make progress.

Aloha,
Craig

[93 ZR1 Barcelona]

I will be doing the same in mine in about two months. Just have finished to clean all parts and will send the block & heads to the machine shop maybe next week.

Were did you get those bridges to clamp the camshafts adjusted to the head bores? Custom made? Or are from the Kent Moore tooling?

Good luck with the assembly, nice job.

Regards,

Ramon.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I will be doing the same in mine in about two months. Just have finished to clean all parts and will send the block & heads to the machine shop maybe next week.

Were did you get those bridges to clamp the camshafts adjusted to the head bores? Custom made? Or are from the Kent Moore tooling?

Good luck with the assembly, nice job.

Regards,

Ramon.

Hello Ramon,

Great to hear from Spain and I know you have more challenges than I do with the logistics end.

I bought the camshaft temporary retainers from Bill Kirchoffer here:

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/ZR1_parts.htm

I'm not sure if he is still doing it or not as I tried to call and email some time ago with no reply to get more tools. A set with other items were on Ebay so they come up sometimes but not sure if anyone else is making them. Someone should if Bill K has stopped making them. I can't afford the real deal and all his tools worked fine for my rebuild.

I bought some tools from SPX but a little price; they have these retainers as well as some of the others:

http://gmspecialservicetools.spx.com/

Best wishes on your build too.

Aloha,

Craig

[GrayZ]

Craig....dude....great job!! give yoself some credit bro.

I wouldn't even attempt what you are doin.

cause if'n i did, i have to send my car to Marc or Corey or JVD to fix
my screw up....

You will be proud as punch as soon as you're baby is back on the road.

what's up with retirement and relocation???

:cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Craig....dude....great job!! give yoself some credit bro.

I wouldn't even attempt what you are doin.

cause if'n i did, i have to send my car to Marc or Corey or JVD to fix
my screw up....

You will be proud as punch as soon as you're baby is back on the road.

what's up with retirement and relocation???

:cheers:

Thanks Keith, as always positive feedback from you and I appreciate it.

I can't wait to get it on the road, especially after you letting me feel what I should expect.

I retired at the end of Nov but going into leave status until then. I will be relocating to where ever that next job is. Right now the only strong thing in the hopper is a governement job here in Hawaii and I interview for it tomorrow afternoon.

Take care and Aloha,

Craig

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Okay folks, here is the deal. The camshafts are timed and what an experience! I had the help of James93LT1, a local guy that I met through here and has been helping me with everything that I need an extra body and set of hands and mind for. We started at 2PM an finished at 7PM. He was enjoying all the challenges along the way and we got the hang of it after the first or second one. It was spooky as we got the sequence going and knew what we were doing, but took our time and analyzed along the way.

It is a good thing to have a smart and patient helper. James does not even own a ZR-1, but sure does know alot about them and I could not have asked for a better person to help me out.

What we did find after doing the left (driver's side) camshafts is that the dial indicator extension that I made being just straight was alright and there is enough clearance right next to the lobe to get to the top of the lifter with the right adjustments to the indicator. The right side (passenger) was a little more challenging and I can see why the few pictures and info that is out there shows or indicates making an extension that bends around the camshaft. We were going to fab one up but I did not plan on doing this again anytime soon and just wanted to get 'er done so we drove on and found the sweet spots to use the straight piece of threaded welding rod that I made. I think I will make that rod with the bend for the dial indicator while I have the covers off so if there is a next time, I'll be good to go.

The biggest challenge as they say is the final lock down with Loctite and torque with new camshaft sprocket bolts. Only one moved after final lock down and even though it was only about a 1 1/2 degrees off we did it over and had to use a new bolt and found I put too much Loctite. It was a little panic for me, but James was not sweating it as I could not put the new bolt back in with all the darn Loctite already curing; it was washed out and start all over with success. We found all the camshafts to be about 2-3 degrees off the ideal settings with factory pinning and needed to adjust all of them. All the camshafts were checked for timing again even if it was a little time consuming to remount the dial indicator on all 4, it was worth it to confirm. My second best friend during this was the 3/8" and 1/2" drive Snap On Techangle torque wrenches I bought late last year for this build. Very sweet wrenches and awesome for the angle needed for torquing the sprocket bolts and keeping an eye on the dial indicator; just need to listen for the beep and vibration to know you are there.

It was awesome and a good feeling to get this done right. Thanks James and "BIG MAHALO" for all your help as always. He is going to help me put the LT5 back in and we hope to do it by the weekend.

Well, I guess I can join the "Timed the LT5 Camshafts Club" now.

:cheers:

Craig

[HIZNHRZ]

Congrats on joining the TLC (Timed LT5 Camshafts) Club! Hopefully it is clear sailing from here to the finish line. Enjoy the ride.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Congrats on joining the TLC (Timed LT5 Camshafts) Club! Hopefully it is clear sailing from here to the finish line. Enjoy the ride.

Thanks Scott. I think all will go well from here and I imagine a few small snags like anything else, but I can't wait to fire it up and hear the Beast come alive.

[carter200]

I can't wait to fire it up and hear the Beast come alive.

Craig,
You can't fire her up till you get the IH's and Plenum. Did GVD say when he'll be done? He's had them for what seems a lifetime :thumbsdo:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Craig,
You can't fire her up till you get the IH's and Plenum. Did GVD say when he'll be done? He's had them for what seems a lifetime :thumbsdo:

Carter,

Yup, in a few days that is all I will be waiting on and you forgot the TB and air horn. In Sep it will be the 1st Anniversary. :redface: I am waiting on a target date I can expect to get the rest of the stuff back.

[carter200]

I sure hope you have all back and driving the beast way before Sep. That is rediculous......................:(

[Paul Workman]

I sure hope you have all back and driving the beast way before Sep. That is rediculous......................:(

Yeah, F'n tell me about it, Carter!:cry: 11 months come Friday 4 me!

I'm with ya Craig! Let the key soon turn and the dew on the grass tremble again!

P.

[tomtom72]

Wow Craig! Thanks for the write up. Just Thank You man for thinking about the rest of us that have never been past the plenum! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and methods with the club!

:cheers: to you!:saluting:



man when you start that thing up I'll bet your grin will be big enough to swallow your ears! You Da Man!:handshak:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Carter, Paul and Tom,

Thanks for your concerns and comments. I am just told another two weeks and those pieces will ported and on their way back to me. It will cut very close and not sure I can make the Corvettes in Paradise Concours event Labor Day weeend.

Tom, I just tried to share some hightlights of where I am and what I found, but did not go into detail as it is a little difficult when learning and trying to take pictures along the way. I just wish more detail information was out there to do this a little easier and I'm probably not the best person to try to give the step by step detail with photos. I imagine Dynomite will do so when he does his.

If time and money permits, I would like to build another serious motor down the road and it would be much easier not that I know what to do and not to do.

Aloha,

Craig

[carter200]

Carter, Paul and Tom,

If time and money permits, I would like to build another serious motor down the road and it would be much easier not that I know what to do and not to do.

Aloha,

Craig

The motor you are doing now is a real stump puller as is. This is serious enough for most of us :cheers:

[LGAFF]

Quote:

I'm not sure if he is still doing it or not as I tried to call and email some time ago with no reply to get more tools. A set with other items were on Ebay so they come up sometimes but not sure if anyone else is making them. Someone should if Bill K has stopped making them. I can't afford the real deal and all his tools worked fine for my rebuild.



I sent my tool set to another forum member, I will let then speak if they are going to reproduce them, they made me a tool and it was a nice as the Kent Moore

[LGAFF]

Kent Moore next to the repro:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/083.jpg

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Kent Moore next to the repro:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/083.jpg

Nice work........almost as good as Carter's. :mrgreen: Glad to see some tools will be available to folks that need them since the originals are expensive and hard to come by.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC02522.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC02523.jpg

A good point made by Jerry is to check to ensure you have the plug in the back of the cam after washing out if new or reground or otherwise serviced. I used Loctite 565 and tightened per the FSM. Mine cams came back without any plugs in the rear as they assumed I would wash out and replace anyway with new plugs. Thanks for mentioning Jerry!!

[Jagdpanzer]

Good tip Craig,
What size is the plug?

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Good tip Craig,
What size is the plug?

Phil,

Sorry, I owe you folks that info. I don't want to have anyone have to take the camshaft into the hardware store like I did to match it up. I had it wrapped in a towel and I think they thought I was toting a gun; I might have been carrying it like a soldier would.........that does not help.:mrgreen:

[A26B]

What size is the plug?

1/8" NPT, allen socket

http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_4&products_id=440

[Polo-1]

We found all the camshafts to be about 2-3 degrees off the ideal settings with factory pinning and needed to adjust all of them. All the camshafts were checked for timing again even if it was a little time consuming to remount the dial indicator on all 4, it was worth it to confirm.

Well, I guess I can join the "Timed the LT5 Camshafts Club" now.

:cheers:

Craig

Nice job;)

I found my factory pin time 120.75 and 105.5 :thumbsdo:
I'm at 114 and 111 now (3hrs myself ) still more fun to go.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Nice job;)

I found my factory pin time 120.75 and 105.5 :thumbsdo:
I'm at 114 and 111 now (3hrs myself ) still more fun to go.

Thanks Kevin. Wow, that is way off and definitely worth it to degree them in I see. I was not sure how much difference SGC Stage I cams would be with the change in lift and duration. Awesome that you could do all that by yourself and in record time. :cheers:

[Polo-1]

I think part of it is the Moldex crank has up to 3 degrees of play in it, with the kent moore tool in should be at 51* locked. I can rock it down to 48.5 up to 52 .
I checked my stock cranks, and had the same play :icon_scra

I have stage II intakes with stage I exhaust

Thats LH only...

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I think part of it is the Moldex crank has up to 3 degrees of play in it, with the kent moore tool in should be at 51* locked. I can rock it down to 48.5 up to 52 .
I checked my stock cranks, and had the same play :icon_scra

I have stage II intakes with stage I exhaust

Okay, thanks for the explanation. I never thought of checking the play in the crank when locked down at the 51 degrees. Your motor is going to be a killer.

[Polo-1]

8 more hours into it and both sides done and lock in at 114 and 110.5
Next time have a helper for sure.... Someone to do the math and hold the back of the cams would be REALLY NICE.

[Polo-1]

Cardboard under the caps. After the second time, the thrid cam slipped on me. From that point cardboard under all the caps, not just one cap.
Bolts to factory spec.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

8 more hours into it and both sides done and lock in at 114 and 110.5
Next time have a helper for sure.... Someone to do the math and hold the back of the cams would be REALLY NICE.

Kevin,

Great news and I don't think I could do it by myself.

[Jagdpanzer]

The holds down clamps that come installed on the heads are mostly meant to hold the cams in place while the cam covers are removed. The bores are some what bigger so there is no contact with the cam journal with the cam covers installed. I made up a set of temporary hold down clamps on my lathe using 1" x 5/8" aluminum flat bar. I can post some pics of the process later if anyone is interested. Two temporary clamps are sufficent for setting the timing however, if I were short handed without someone to hold the other end of the cam, I would go with four clamps with a piece of cardboard under each one when torquing the sprocket bolt.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Marc suggests the following:
Place a piece of cardboard under one of the camshaft hold down clamps to prevent the cam from turning when tightening the cam bolt. I like to use cardboard from an oil filter box, about 1 inch wide.

Your suggestion using two cardboard shims under two camshaft hold down clamps is even better :thumbsup:
I assume the cam hold down clamps you used are identical to the cam hold down clamps Craig was using?

......only if we can get Carter200 to make those for us ;)
Only if Craig would send Carter200 his hold down clamps he got from Bill Kirchoffer for reverse engineering ;)

I assume you were using two camshaft hold down clamps for each cam? It appears Craig was using four camshaft hold down clamps plus the two stock camshaft retainers for each camshaft?

I think those cam hold down clamps have a tighter clearance than the stock camshaft retainers on the camshaft you see when you remove the valve covers.

Carter and I are in discussions, but I believe another member here has someone making all the tools already. Competition is always good though to keep prices reasonable for all.