Car didn't start

[plev]

I had an issue today where my beast would not start. I had full power to windows, lights, but got NOTHING when I turned the key, not even a clicking from the starter.

I let the car sit for three hours and it started right up.

this wasn't an issue because I was home but I'd hate to have this happen away from the house.

If it helps, I had just washed it however had started it to move it once after the wash.

Any ideas what it could have been?

[Kevin]

sounds like the clutch switch problem I had. simple fix.

Pull drivers side hush panel. Find Purple wire that goes to clutch 
switch. Look at switch and note the color of wire coming back 
up.(Yellow??) Will be able to jumper them right there. I used a 3 in 
wire with terminals on the end and unplugged the wires going to switch 
and plugged in the jumper wire. Use a 12 ga wire at least as it does 
carry a heavy current load which is why the switch fails, it gets hot 
and the resistance across the points stops current flow.

[LGAFF]

The question is if there is a volt drop when you push in the clutch pedal, if you see a volt drop, clutch switch is fine.

Chances are starter is going or was wet.

[tccrab]

I had an issue today where my beast would not start. I had full power to windows, lights, but got NOTHING when I turned the key, not even a clicking from the starter.

I let the car sit for three hours and it started right up.

this wasn't an issue because I was home but I'd hate to have this happen away from the house.

If it helps, I had just washed it however had started it to move it once after the wash.

Any ideas what it could have been?

Sounds like the...............
Dreaded No Start

My favorite topic!!

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showpost.php?p=57145&postcount=2

TomC
"Crabs

[Aurora40]

Was the car hot when it wouldn't start? If so, the sitting to fix it suggests a starter going south.

Did the security light come on when it wouldn't start? That suggests a VATS or key issue (and you probably could have tried again in 5 minutes vs 3 hours.)

[plev]

Yes, the car was hot, or at least very very warm.

and yes the security light was on. I noticed it because all the dash boards lit up as they do when I am starting it. I'll have to check to see if the security light typically comes on when I start it.

What's VATS?

[Aurora40]

vehicle anti-theft system. It is that black pellet in the ignition key (and the system that reads the pellet's resistance).

It's not uncommon for the pellet to wear over time and no longer make good contact. There are also other wear parts, but for me I've been able to solve VATS problems on past cars with a new ignition key.

[tccrab]

:cheers:

1. Jumper out the Clutch safety switch. Are you saying jump the purple wire to what? (Kevin's solution)
2. Replace Starter relay under dash. This is the relay you show in diagram? Where is started relay located exactly?
3. Install my patented "Dreaded No Start Cure". What is this?

1. Install a jumper wire to bypass the clutch safety switch. Pretty simple stuff.
2. There is a starter relay tucked up under the dash on the drivers side.
3. Dreaded No Start Cure:
http://www.zr1.net/forum/showpost.php?p=55988&postcount=6

TomC
"Crabs

[gbrtng]

91s do not have a starter relay under the dash - that came in later years.

[Paul Workman]

:cheers:

I put your patented No Start Cure in Solutions http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11619 :mrgreen:

I thought I would take the liberty of enhancing Mr. TCCRAB's diagram. The relay is an excellent solution:thumbsup:, especially if bypassing the clutch switch is not necessarily desirable to some. (The relay does the heavy lifting, leaving the clutch switch the relative minuscule task of triggering the relay.)

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/tech%20files/Starterrelaymodification.jpg

Something else comes to mind, and that is while purchasing the relay one might get a plug-in type relay and the matching socket, as opposed to hard wiring the relay in place. That would allow for a quick swap of the relay - if ever needed. Just a thought.

P.

[IowaZR-1]

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/tech%20files/Starterrelaymodification.jpg

Something else comes to mind, and that is while purchasing the relay one might get a plug-in type relay and the matching socket, as opposed to hard wiring the relay in place. That would allow for a quick swap of the relay - if ever needed. Just a thought.

P.
Exactly what I did here. Installed the relay above the battery and used an inline fuse also. I keep a spare relay and fuse in the console. Thanks again Tom and nice picture Paul!
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/IowaZR-1/100_0169.jpg

[tccrab]

I thought I would take the liberty of enhancing Mr. TCCRAB's diagram. The relay is an excellent solution:thumbsup:, especially if bypassing the clutch switch is not necessarily desirable to some. (The relay does the heavy lifting, leaving the clutch switch the relative minuscule task of triggering the relay.)

<snip>

Something else comes to mind, and that is while purchasing the relay one might get a plug-in type relay and the matching socket, as opposed to hard wiring the relay in place. That would allow for a quick swap of the relay - if ever needed. Just a thought.

P.

Paul:

Wow.
Just Wow.
:worship::worship::worship:

Thank you!!
Much better than my funky stick drawing.
:mrgreen:
TomC
'Crabs

[TFENT]

Can anyone that did this modification take some photos of the relay installed, showing the purple wire and I do not wish to cut the wrong wire. I have this problem now after all the engine work we did. I had to clean it and washed it. Major error on my part. Car only starts after its been warmed up from a bump start. After it cools no start/crank.
Thank you.

[tccrab]

SPDT Relay : (Single Pole Double Throw Relay) an electromagnetic switch, consist of a coil (terminals 85 & 86), 1 common terminal (30), 1 normally closed terminal (87a), and one normally open terminal (87) (Figure 1).

When the coil of an SPDT relay is at rest (not energized), the common terminal (30) and the normally closed terminal (87a) have continuity. When the coil is energized, the common terminal (30) and the normally open terminal (87) have continuity.

Pin #87: Purple wire to the starter
Pin #30: Battery positive 12v
Pin #86: Battery ground
Pin #85: Purple wire from ECM
Pin #87a: Not used


The purple wire lives in the big loom just after the ECM. Peel back the ribbed covering and dig around. There is only one purple wire.
Cut the purple wire carefully noting which end leads down to the starter and which end comes out of the back of the ECM.
Use similar sized wire (10 or 12 gauge if I recall correctly).
Black wire doesn't stand out like bright red or yellow.

I hid my relay under the ECM, Paul (in the picture above) hid his in the battery area.

I modded mine 4 years ago and have *NEVER* had a "Dreaded No Start" again.

TomC
'Crabs

[TFENT]

OK WOW!!

I just did this mod. IT WORKED!!!

God you guys are so great I tell ya. Took all of about 20 mins, a few parts, and reading the "directions" a few times to make sure I didn't screw it up. The beast roared right to life after completing the re-wire.

The only thing I should add to this is there are more then one purple wire in and around the pcm, so I couldn't figure out at first which one to hit. It's the biggest purple wire in the loom after the pcm. It's a light purple wire that's a 10 gauge wire. Not hard to find when you dig for it. I put a voltage gauge to it BEFORE I cut it to see if I was getting voltage out of it when I turned the key. Voltage was 7 volts. VICTORY!!

[tccrab]

OK WOW!!

I just did this mod. IT WORKED!!!

VICTORY!!

Glad to hear it worked for you.
:cheers::cheers::cheers:
:handshak::notworthy

TomC
'Crabs

[Barry]

Ok I have this problem now, well at least it won't crank when the key is turned. What exactly does TCCRAB's solution bypass/fix ?

If I hold the key to 'Start' and then press in the clutch, the voltage drops so I know it's not the clutch switch.

Is there a relay under the instrument panel? I saw someone said it's not there in the '91 (which mine is), but it's clearly shown in the manual as the 'starter enable relay'.

How can I check to make sure it's not the starter itself? Is there a way to jump the terminals at the starter without pulling the plenum ?

thanks in advance,

Barry

[Barry]

hahaha never mind, turned out to be a bad battery. I had no idea it was 5 plus years old, and strange that it just died so suddenly