Header Bolt Battle

[LGAFF]

Picking up from my last battle with a Mobile 1 oil filter....I am in the midst of a header install.....as the motor was pulled and rebuilt once, apparently the tech that did the headers must have mistaken the head torque specs with the head(er)......Several of these have taken a cheater to get them to move...having high miles the corrosion does not help.

Needless to say there was one bolt that decided it did not wish to depart. The bolt head rounded off when I used the cheater. Heat, bolt extractor socket, etc has not worked. Wondering if the next step is to get an angle grinder to either 1)cut off the bolt head 2)cut the bolt spacer to relieve some of the pressure. Its at least one of the easier bolts to get to.

[Dynomite]

So....I assume the headers are still on since the bolt head is still on :mrgreen:.......cut the head off (head only or round the head so you can get the heads off) and get the headers removed.

Then work on the bolt.......maybe a bit of heat or all sorts of other possible methods might help once you have the headers removed. With the headers removed you also have a bit more room to work. You do NOT want to break the bolt flush with the block....so heat might be your answere.

[flyin ryan]

Gay....PIA. Sorry buddy.

[LGAFF]

Just to be clear...these are the exhaust manifold bolts, whoever put this thing on went alittle overboard on the torque or corrision has seized them. Engine is in the car.

[Dynomite]

Just to be clear...these are the exhaust manifold bolts, whoever put this thing on went alittle overboard on the torque or corrision has seized them. Engine is in the car.

:sign10: I know...that is what I was referring to......exhaust headers....I called them heads as I was writing about Hockey for Ryan at the same time....:thumbsup:

It would be kind of hard cutting the head of one of those head bolts for sure....:sign10:

[Jeffvette]

If it is easy to get to, take a grinder and cut the head off, and either use vice grips to get the bolt out, or weld a new nut on and then remove.

[LGAFF]

Thanks Jeff......

Has anyone ever gotten one of these extractors(sockets) to work, only needed to try one a few times, but never gotten them to work.

[Dynomite]

If it is easy to get to, take a grinder and cut the head off, and either use vice grips to get the bolt out, or weld a new nut on and then remove.

I prefer vice grips and heat as I have never had any luck welding on a new nut especially in a tight space......nut always broke off again and again.....:mrgreen:

[Jeffvette]

Thanks Jeff......

Has anyone ever gotten one of these extractors(sockets) to work, only needed to try one a few times, but never gotten them to work.


They are hit or miss, by the time they are really rounded off, the extractors don't work as well.

[flyin ryan]

The liquid wrench is always good. Can try some penetrating oil first if you haven't yet, even though 'Uphill' it will find it's way up into the threads a certain amount at least, can't hurt to try if you don't have bottles handy.

[LGAFF]

I did BP blaster with no success......MAPP Gas torch also. Time to cut to SOB off....plenty of thread to play with

[flyin ryan]

Lucky you've got lots of thread...Still a PIA though :cool:

[-=Jeff=-]

which bolt on the header? is it easy to get to?

[LGAFF]

Yes, its D/S and right in the center, decent access from the side of the car.

[Jim Nolan]

This is probably too late in your case but one trick I learned from My Military days is try to tighten first before trying to loosen. The theory here is that the best flats on the bolt are on the tighten side and all you need to do is break the bolt loose which is what you are trying to do prior to loosing it. I have also seen a brass drift used to tap on the top of the bolt head to break the siezure. Not hard but a firm tap.

Good luck!

[Pete]

Yes, its D/S and right in the center, decent access from the side of the car.

Lee, is this your 1990 Z?
If it's the screw next to the center stud, worst case just don't cut it flush for now and don't put a screw there.

I only do criss/cross pattern on my headers 2 screws on each header tube one the center stud tubes i don't even put screws the stud does just fine on the inner side and just put one screw on the outside of the center tubes.
I can explain a little beter on the phone

Pete

[-=Jeff=-]

Some thing like this Pete???

O= bolt, X= no Bolt (_ used for alignment)


O____X__X____O___O____X__X____O

X____O__O____X_O_X____O__O____X


but think might be better:


X____O__X____O___O____X__O____X

O____X__O____X_O_X____O__X____O

[Pete]

Some thing like this Pete???

O= bolt, X= no Bolt, S= Center Stud (_ used for alignment)




O____O__O____O____O____O__O____O

O____X__O____X_S__X____O__X_____O


This is my headers no issues

Pete

[Pete]

O= bolt, X= no Bolt, S= Center Stud (_ used for alignment)

O____X_O____X___X____O_X_____O

X____O_X____X_S_X____X_O_____X


I have also used this way with no issues.
This is the way i was trying to explain to Lee.

The reason i do it like my previous post is visaul all top screws are in and people stop telling me i'm missing screws,
my reply "my wife thinks the same" LOL
Pete

[Dynomite]

which bolt on the header? is it easy to get to?

So....this is a bolt installed in a header, not the original exhaust manifold.

Then this bolt must be only about 3/8 inch showing after you grind off the head (maybe a bit more with the gasket).

Pete's idea of just grind it off sounds like something I would do :cheers:

After I applied a little heat and vice grips but not too much heat ;)

I did not fill every header fastener position with a bolt either :thumbsup:

[-=Jeff=-]

So....this is a bolt installed in a header, not the original exhaust manifold.

Then this bolt must be only about 3/8 inch showing after you grind off the head (maybe a bit more with the gasket).

Pete's idea of just grind it off sounds like something I would do :cheers:

After I applied a little heat and vice grips but not too much heat ;)

I did not fill every header fastener position with a bolt either :thumbsup:

No it is ont he exhaust manifold.. I used the wrong terminology for it.. sorry

[Paul Workman]

This from "Sheri" on the unmentionable board...

http://forums.*************.com/c4-general-discussion/2539382-sheri-just-got-3-stars-part-2-loosen-ur-nuts.html

IN case the link does not work, goto the C4 section on CF. She's always worth a chuckle anyway.

P.

[XfireZ51]

Kroil was one of my favorite tools in the tool kit. Wasn't sure if they still made it. Thanks! :thumbsup:

[flyin ryan]

I've never used that stuff, Have heard about it though...Not sure if it's available up here or not...?

[Paul Workman]

Kroil was one of my favorite tools in the tool kit. Wasn't sure if they still made it. Thanks! :thumbsup:

Dom, I can pick some up for ya anytime you need it - Fleetwood has it in stock and is about 5 minutes from the shop. Also, Sinclair International has it in stock in gallon cans, if ya want it. (We use it a lot in the competition rifle game as a cleaning agent for removing copper fouling from the rifling.) I never saw it as a spray, but the afore mentioned Fleetwood has industrial strength spray bottles (chemically resistant) in which one could put some Kroil, I recon.

OR, talk to "Sheri" about getting some .... (or maybe better not.:sign10:)

P.

[XfireZ51]

Dom, I can pick some up for ya anytime you need it - Fleetwood has it in stock and is about 5 minutes from the shop. Also, Sinclair International has it in stock in gallon cans, if ya want it. (We use it a lot in the competition rifle game as a cleaning agent for removing copper fouling from the rifling.) I never saw it as a spray, but the afore mentioned Fleetwood has industrial strength spray bottles (chemically resistant) in which one could put some Kroil, I recon.

OR, talk to "Sheri" about getting some .... (or maybe better not.:sign10:)

P.

Nothing better. LEt me know how much for a couple of spray cans.

[LGAFF]

Went to Menards and bought a $17 Angle grinder, took off the safety shield and cut the bolt head off. Exhaust manifold came right off. Will monkey with the remaining stud later.

[flyin ryan]

bought a $17 Angle grinder, took off the safety shield Typical guy....[-X..:mrgreen:

[phrogs]

Typical guy....[-X..:mrgreen:


I would have just cut it off as well.

but I used to be a machinist thats what Id do then try to get out the stud if it still wont come out and you really really want to get it out the head might have to come off unless I could get a 90 degree drill in there to drill it out and then remove the bolt. done that thousands of times back when I was in the military:mrgreen:

[LGAFF]

My guess is that with the tension off from the spacer it will come off with some heat and set of grips.

[klaptrapper]

PB Blaster is better, IMHO.

Rusty
'90 1572


The liquid wrench is always good. Can try some penetrating oil first if you haven't yet, even though 'Uphill' it will find it's way up into the threads a certain amount at least, can't hurt to try if you don't have bottles handy.

[klaptrapper]

Radio Shack sells a spray can which is used to detect cracks in circuit board lands. It is a freezing spray, which sprays a mist that is -60 degrees. If you waste a full can on the bolt, once the old header is removed by grinding off the head. It will shrink the bolt stub , perhaps sufficiently to, along with the bp blaster, etc. you use, to extract the stub, not with a pair of vice grips, but with a new 8 inch pipe wrench. That will either extract the stub, or break it off, as it can exert far more torque than a pair of vice grips. Be sure to get maximum contact with the pipe wrench the full length of the stub.

Just my 2c

Rusty

[rhipsher]

In my proffesional opinion if he couldn't get it off with a socket then theres no way vice grips are gonna work. I'd just grind it flush and leave the stupid thing in there. Its not going to hurt anything. If you use a right angle drill your probably not going to have room and trying to keep it striaght while your drilling it will be damn near impossible. Just take the head off. Take it to a local machine shop and let them do it right. The alternative is making it worse than it already is. "I'M JUST SAYING"! But go ahead and give all of that other voodoo BS a try first. Already tried that freeze out stuff. Its useless especially when the material that's capturing the bolt is softer than the bolt. Freezing it will just cause the aluminum to contract even tighter. Heat is the way to go. But if you use a Map torch you might blow you azz up with oil all around you.

[LGAFF]

There is a good inch sticking out, maybe a stud remover?

Will keep you updated.

[A26B]

I agree with the 8" pipe wrench. No vise grips! If you have to buy one, get the best bang for the buck and buy Rigid brand. The thing I like best about the pipe wrench approach is you may be able to get a small ball peen hammer and tap the end of the bolt while you're holding torque on it with the pipe wrench. Helps alot to break it loose.

While the concept of freezing is good, I don't think this is the right application. Steel has a thermal coefficient of expansion of 0.000006in/in. If you achievedperfect thermal transfer through the bolt only (which you won't) you would shrink the bolt only about 0.0004", not enough to accomplish anything. Aluminum on the other hand has a much greater coefficient, but the head is such a large heat sink, its going to take a lot of heat and quickly to no heat the bolt too!! Sorry, I don't see heating or cooling as a very viable option here.

I'll wager you will get it out with the wrench. just don't try to back it out all at one to prevent galling the threads. Work it both directions while trying to loosen & spray some of the recommended products like Liquid Wrench on it while you're working it and don't get in a hurry.

FWIW, I used to own an oilfield job type machine shop & all we did was fix broken stuff & make replacement parts. Every machine tool in the place was manual. Every job was a new setup.

Go easy & good luck...

[LGAFF]

Stud came out with just a regular pliers....nothing else....turned easily.