ZF 6 oil

[secondchance]

I know this subject has been beat to death. One simple question - what was the factory fill? Any particular reason we debate between Castrol and Redline? I must have missed something.:confused:

[ZR1Vette]

Was the ZF tranny made in Germany by ZF Getriebe GmbH in Saarbruken, Germany? Or did ZF have a manufacturing facility in the US (as it does now)?


If the answer to the first question is 'yes' then probably the "factory fill" would have been Castrol 10W-60

[secondchance]

I am not too crazy about changing fluids every year (10 - 12,000 miles) if I can avoid it.
I have 110,000 miles and perhaps changed it once at around 40,000 miles or so with no issue.
Am I taking too much risk? I was thinking if I stayed w/ factory fill, perhaps I could avoid anual change.

Your thoughts, guys?

[Dynomite]

I am not too crazy about changing fluids every year (10 - 12,000 miles) if I can avoid it.
I have 110,000 miles and perhaps changed it once at around 40,000 miles or so with no issue.
Am I taking too much risk? I was thinking if I stayed w/ factory fill, perhaps I could avoid anual change.

Your thoughts, guys?
I think you are with majority ;)

I prolly change transmission and differential oil every 50,000 miles on some vehicles....longer change interval on most vehicles.

But then again...the Z gets special treatment......and I will prolly change transmission and differential oil every 15,000 miles more or less on the Z. I did add the drain plug in the differential to make changing oil a lot easier on the 91' Z :thumbsup:

I use castrol TWS 10W-60 (transmission), Mobile 1 75W-90 (Differential) and Amsoil 10W-40 (Engine).


http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1/TWSCastrol-1.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1/75W-90M1-1.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1/AMSOIL10W-40oil.jpg

[secondchance]

I guess I will stay with factory fill.
10-12000 miles change for BMW Castrol comment concerns me.:icon_scra

[Dynomite]

I guess I will stay with factory fill.
10-12000 miles change for BMW Castrol comment concerns me.:icon_scra

I think the issue of suspended spent synchronizer material is associated with any transmission oil you might use (more so with GL-5 than GL-4 lubricants because of the additives - see below) :cool:

Not necessarily associated only with (I think even less associated with - see below) the use of Castrol TWS 10W-60 :)

The recommended oil change interval of 12,000 miles by Bill B. will reduce the accumulation of that suspension of synchronizer material which may be more significant an issue with the ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission.

Some bits of additional information by others :happy1:

"Some late model Corvette transmissions (ZF) have a reputation for generating significant quantities of bronze particulate mud and require both special synthetic lubricant and frequent changes to achieve old age. At one point a few years ago I think there was just one lube in the world (maybe by Castrol) that was ZF approved."

"API GL-4 and API GL-5 products typically use the same extreme pressure (EP) additive system, with the API GL-5 having about twice the concentration of EP additive as API GL-4. In service, these additives become active under extreme load and temperature when the protective oil film can be squeezed away. EP additives work by forming wear-resistant compounds with the metal of the gear tooth surface. As the gears mesh, these compounds shield the gear teeth from direct metal-to-metal contact that would cause wear and damage to the gears. If too little of the active additive is present, proper protection would be compromised. Too much of this EP additive could cause excessive chemical corrosion of the gear surface.

If an API GL-5 gear oil is used in a application where API GL-4 gear oil is called for, chemical corrosion of "yellow metal" components may occur, such as bronze synchronizers, brass bushings, etc. This may lead to shifting difficulties or shortened equipment life."

[Hammer]

I think you are with majority ;)

I prolly change transmission and differential oil every 50,000 miles on some vehicles....longer change interval on most vehicles.

But then again...the Z gets special treatment......and I will prolly change transmission and differential oil every 15,000 miles more or less on the Z. I did add the drain plug in the differential to make changing oil a lot easier on the 91' Z :thumbsup:

I use castrol TWS 10W-60 (transmission), Mobile 1 75W-90 (Differential) and Amsoil 10W-40 (Engine).


http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1/TWSCastrol-1.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1/75W-90M1-1.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1/AMSOIL10W-40oil.jpg
Did you have to use any of the posi additive with the Mobil 1?

[Dynomite]

Did you have to use any of the posi additive with the Mobil 1?

No...you said I did not have to with Mobile 1 75W-90 :mrgreen:

Actually I have installed Mobile 1 75W-90 in the differential but have not driven the Z. On the Mobile 1 75W-90 it says limited slip applications right on the bottle. Kind of matches the tag on my differential fill plug (Use limited slip oil only....or something like that) ;)

If I have to go with a slippery additive, let me know :happy1:
I know.....you are now concerned with going to BG on that long trip with new 410 gears and experimental Mobile 1 75W-90 :cool:

[tomtom72]

I am not too crazy about changing fluids every year (10 - 12,000 miles) if I can avoid it.
I have 110,000 miles and perhaps changed it once at around 40,000 miles or so with no issue.
Am I taking too much risk? I was thinking if I stayed w/ factory fill, perhaps I could avoid anual change.

Your thoughts, guys?

The only thoughts that I have are: what's the big deal on changing the trans fluid every two yrs or so, or even every year? The original fill is NLA from GM. The new P/N is probably not the same as the OE/BG fill as when the C4 was in production, no? That makes sense to me. The C5 & C6 box and for that matter most of the other manual gear boxes that GM uses now use the same stuff. You guys have lifts & a place(s) to work! Try doing this stuff in a parking lot or in the middle of the night so you don't loose your rented space, or worse yet trusting your prized possession to some non-caring tech!:jawdrop:

Also, I remember reading somewhere that GL numbers are not substitutable in that if you need GL3 a GL4 fluid will not cover your needs. I think I saw that on Bill's site. I also remember seeing on his site that the zf was spec'ed at an odd ball GL number not commonly used here. I want to say GL3(?) but I don't remember now, sorry. Oh, it's the same with the gear fluid that GM sells, it's not exactly what came with our cars from BG either. It's for the 5's & 6's set up.

Lastly, when I looked at that wear test/fluid lubrication degradation test over at Bill's site I was kind of amazed at the rate of fall off of viscosity. Now I'm not a Petro/chem Engineer but the fall off was alarming to me. Take those results and add them to the issue of the synchronizer collar getting gummed up with the sludge causing bad things to happen, eventually...I might add that this is probably the weakest argument for frequent changes...you wind up at Bill's shop for a rebuild which costs a few thousand dollars.

I know it's a PIA, but then if you do the schedule so that once the car is up on stands, or a lift, you do all the fluids at once. This way you're not doing them at any number of separate sessions, which to me is a PIA! I used to do all my "under car" work at the same session: motor oil, trans oil, gear oil, fuel filter, clutch fluid & brake fluid bleed thru's, coolant + stat change. The last three fluids were once every two yrs, to lighten the work load.:redface:

To me it's a question of having a schedule & sticking to it. Also, and this is a bit half-assed, I like to think that once my maintenance session is over, I'm go to go for the rest of the year except for oil changes.

Sorry for what looks like a rant Yun. It's just that I'm old school, or maybe just old & senile, but machines need maintenance.:redface:

:cheers:
Tom

[secondchance]

The only thoughts that I have are: what's the big deal on changing the trans fluid every two yrs or so, or even every year? The original fill is NLA from GM. The new P/N is probably not the same as the OE/BG fill as when the C4 was in production, no? That makes sense to me. The C5 & C6 box and for that matter most of the other manual gear boxes that GM uses now use the same stuff. You guys have lifts & a place(s) to work! Try doing this stuff in a parking lot or in the middle of the night so you don't loose your rented space, or worse yet trusting your prized possession to some non-caring tech!:jawdrop:

Also, I remember reading somewhere that GL numbers are not substitutable in that if you need GL3 a GL4 fluid will not cover your needs. I think I saw that on Bill's site. I also remember seeing on his site that the zf was spec'ed at an odd ball GL number not commonly used here. I want to say GL3(?) but I don't remember now, sorry. Oh, it's the same with the gear fluid that GM sells, it's not exactly what came with our cars from BG either. It's for the 5's & 6's set up.

Lastly, when I looked at that wear test/fluid lubrication degradation test over at Bill's site I was kind of amazed at the rate of fall off of viscosity. Now I'm not a Petro/chem Engineer but the fall off was alarming to me. Take those results and add them to the issue of the synchronizer collar getting gummed up with the sludge causing bad things to happen, eventually...I might add that this is probably the weakest argument for frequent changes...you wind up at Bill's shop for a rebuild which costs a few thousand dollars.

I know it's a PIA, but then if you do the schedule so that once the car is up on stands, or a lift, you do all the fluids at once. This way you're not doing them at any number of separate sessions, which to me is a PIA! I used to do all my "under car" work at the same session: motor oil, trans oil, gear oil, fuel filter, clutch fluid & brake fluid bleed thru's, coolant + stat change. The last three fluids were once every two yrs, to lighten the work load.:redface:

To me it's a question of having a schedule & sticking to it. Also, and this is a bit half-assed, I like to think that once my maintenance session is over, I'm go to go for the rest of the year except for oil changes.

Sorry for what looks like a rant Yun. It's just that I'm old school, or maybe just old & senile, but machines need maintenance.:redface:

:cheers:
Tom

I hear ya, Tom. I think I have a solution - drain the old fluid, run it through a coffe filter and the refill - JUST KIDDING!
I guess I am stuck with an additional annual fluid change. Knowing my personality, once I hear these things it tends to make me lose sleep until done the way it suppose to be.
Thanks guys for all the info.:cheers:

[tomtom72]

I hear ya, Tom. I think I have a solution - drain the old fluid, run it through a coffe filter and the refill - JUST KIDDING!
I guess I am stuck with an additional annual fluid change. Knowing my personality, once I hear these things it tends to make me lose sleep until done the way it suppose to be.
Thanks guys for all the info.:cheers:

First, Yun I'm not ranting at you. :redface: I'm in a foul mood today pending the snow storm arriving tomorrow.

My view is what costs more? A zfdoc rebuild or some lousey trans oil even at the local BMW dealer's prices? I look at it this way, if there is even a chance that I can forestall a visit to zfdoc's shop by doing the fluid every yr or 10k then it's worth it to me. But that's just me. To me it's the same as my DD's upkeep, you don't want it to break then you gotta do maintenance. I don't want anyone to think it's easier for the garage queens vs Yun's Z that sees more use in a yr than my Z sees in two years! No matter which car, DD or "prized possession", maintenance is what makes the anxiety level remain low(er)! Of course this is still just my thinking, and it sure don't carry the weight of any actual mechanical experience or expertise in my possession! :dontknow:
:mrgreen:

[Dynomite]

I think I have a solution - drain the old fluid, run it through a coffee filter and then refill :cheers:

Just let me know what coffee filter you are using and if you can get that filter on Ebay :mrgreen:

The only thoughts that I have are: what's the big deal on changing the trans fluid every two yrs or so, or even every year?
Tom

Tom.....Hammer is now concerned with the use of Mobile 1 75W-90 in differential without additives (he has new 410s). What oil are you (or anyone) using in the differential?

Do you use any additives to that primary differential oil such as Amsoil Slip Lock™ Differential Additive (ADA) designed to eliminate gear-housing chatter associated with limited-slip, posi-traction and locking differentials?

I did install the differential oil drain plug (91' Z) without taking the differential apart. I then filled with Mobile 1 75W-90. That drain plug installation went perfect ;)

[xlr8nflorida]

I am running Mobil 1 75W-90 in my differential. Even though in 98% of cases, you don't need (ADA) according to Mobil 1, I did add 1 4 OZ bottle of GM additive for added safety. I've done a few hundred miles and no issues but its going to be dropped shortly and refilled. You should drain the rear end after break in of adding new rear end gears - probably around the 400 mile mark.

For what its worth, Haibeck uses the GM stuff in the ZF-6.

[WydGlydJim]

I'm running the Amsoil stuff......seems to shift well so far. GM part #1052931 is under the list this fluid replaces.......website says you can go 50,000 miles between changes.........
:dontknow:

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mtf.aspx

[ZR1Vette]

I use Amsoil AMO for the engine and Amsoil 75W-90 Severe Gear+ Amsoil Slip Loc additive for diff and Castrol TWS for the tranny.

[tomtom72]

Cliff, long story longer....:o My car I got from the O.O., 7400 miles / 14.5 yrs old. Everything in the car was OE/BG save the motor oil & coolant ( thank god! this guy was questioning the use of synthetic motor oil in a 90 Z!!!!! ).

I used to use the GM replacement fills for the gear & trans, until one session I had time on my hands and I was comparing P/N's in the owner's manual to the stuff I just bought at the local chevy dealer ( after I had put the stuff in both! I know I'm sooooo very perceptive! ). I nearly choked when I saw that the gear lube was not spec'ed to the exact specs as the OE/BG stuff that came in the car. I figured who cares as I change it every year anyway, same with the trans fluid from GM. I asked at the dealer about the two fluids and read up here & at Bill's site.

Result: I stuck with the GM gear fluid + two bottles of additive ( as per Gordon's instructions ) because the chevy parts guy said it was the same GL # but that the additive pkg was tailored to the 5's & 6's. The trans stuff he couldn't give me a GL # on for either what came in the car from BG or what the new stuff was from GM. He said I was on my own on that call.

I got caught up in the "bad, poorly made" clutch hydraulic parts a few yrs back that GM had on the market. I changed six sets, yes six sets, of M/C's + slaves in my car in the span of six months. That's when I decided to go with the BMW oil exclusively for the box and ditch the newer GM stuff. I was switching out the box oil every time I had a hydraulic failure because no one picked up on GM quality control problems. I didn't know what was causing my box to make the grinding noises till Bill doped the issue out & told all of us.

The last gear oil I just switched last winter to the sever duty amsoil fluid + one additive(theirs) and it went 5,036 miles without a hick-up....but that is going to be changed as it's part of my "winter get ready schedule". I will proly go with something I can get local, maybe M1 stuff or back to GM for their stuff. I hate to say this, I'm less worried about the gear lube than the box fluid. The gear lube is GL5(?) by the specs for a C4 ( I maybe wrong on that ), but my point is that the correct GL # lube for the gear is easily obtained almost anywhere. The box's correct GL # lube seems to me to be impossible to find for sure. Therefore, I'm OCD about the gear box lube changes as ( hopefully ) a precaution to forestall syncro failure.

btw, I know that on this subject I'm out where the buses don't run. :hal: In terms of my "maintenance schedule", some people could use the stuff I throw out every winter! Any one wanna buy a set of correct date coded 1990 FR2LS spark plugs?:mrgreen:

[Aurora40]

I know this subject has been beat to death. One simple question - what was the factory fill?
I believe the factory fill was a motor oil made by Texaco that had the correct properties GM was looking for. It stopped being produced about 10 years ago. The fluid GM sells now is not the same stuff as the original fill.

This is why it is debated as to what the "best" fill now is.

[Jeffvette]

I am not too crazy about changing fluids every year (10 - 12,000 miles) if I can avoid it.
I have 110,000 miles and perhaps changed it once at around 40,000 miles or so with no issue.
Am I taking too much risk? I was thinking if I stayed w/ factory fill, perhaps I could avoid anual change.

Your thoughts, guys?

Even with the factory fluid i would step up the intervals. Price out a ZF6 rebuild and let us know if a yearly or every other year fluid change is worth it.

[secondchance]

I hear you guys. I know I get a bit lazy. Besides, all my old cars were good with hardly any tranny oil change. But then again, I use to change my car quite frequently...

Thank you for your concern and advise. Next time I change motor oil I will drain and fill with that fancy BMW-Castrol.:notworthy

[Dynomite]

Did you have to use any of the posi additive with the Mobil 1?

I am now convinced even though I am using 75W-90 Mobile 1 synthetic in differential, I should add 4 oz of GM Performance 1052358 Limited Slip Lubricant Additive ;)

The Mobile 1 75W-90 says limited slip applications right on the bottle. The GM Performance 1052358 Limited Slip Lubricant Additive will add a bit of insurance.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11315

[Hammer]

I went to NAPA over the weekend and picked up a tube of limited slip gear oil additive under the Trans-X brand that states on the tube it is for use in OEM Limited Slip Diferentials and and has the GM #1052358 on it. Price was $11.28.


Then I went to Autozone today and lo and behold. They have the exact same stuff there for $4.99. Bought it and will be headed back to NAPA soon.
http://www.crcindustries.com/catalog/images/Gear%20Oils/402508.jpg