Got a free Battery today...

[Ccmano]

In Feb of 2008 I bought a new Walmart Maxx 75N battery for the Z. For the last few weeks I've been having battery issues with the battery being almost dead when I come out to start the car. At first it took a charge but in the last week it stopped even doing that.

These Maxx batteries have a 3 year free replacement guaranty, so I took it back figuring I would at least get a hassle. To my surprise it was no questions asked, I presented the old battery and receipt and was simply directed to get a new one.

The new one is installed and all is good! I don't know why so many people seem to have aversions to Walmart?
H
:cheers:

[Paul Workman]

No aversion here, Hans. I have one of those batteries in my Z, and have had several others in various vehicles. Pb/H2SO4/Zinc is a fairly well understood technology. Competition being what it is tends to level the playing field within the narrow scope of the ingredients to the point true distinctions between "lead/acid" batteries become rarefied---advertisements notwithstanding (of course).

With those little 800mA Battery Tenders I've had great luck getting 5 years + out of "Wally World" batteries. I'm with you!:thumbsup:

P.

[LGAFF]

Seems to be a trend these only last about year(Walmart battery). On my 2nd one in the 92. Went through 2 in 3 years with my 90 L98

[-=Jeff=-]

Seems to be a trend these only last about year(Walmart battery). On my 2nd one in the 92. Went through 2 in 3 years with my 90 L98

It does HELP when you drive them ;) Especially that 1992 you have :p

[LGAFF]

It does HELP when you drive them ;) Especially that 1992 you have :p


I have a 1992? Guess I forgot about that one.

[LGAFF]

Tried to reason with my wife, as the 92 is going to be rarely driven and as the 90 is only alloted 3K miles per year, I really need a third to give me 6K per year to drive on. Really, it only makes sense.

[-=Jeff=-]

:sign10:I have a 1992? Guess I forgot about that one.

[xlr8nflorida]

:sign10:

I use a CTEK Float/Pulse Charger on my Z.

Never have a battery problem and the battery usually lasts through its term of 3 years, 5 years, 7 years etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHSI_qHOI4U

[ZRXMAX]

My 40 lb Optima will be seeing its 6th anniversary soon after 50K of driving.

I would like to find a lighter battery for the next segment of good battery performance.

[Paul Workman]

Seems to be a trend these only last about year(Walmart battery). On my 2nd one in the 92. Went through 2 in 3 years with my 90 L98

Wow! That is totally outside of the realm of "normal", and contrary to anything I've experienced with them.:icon_scra How the battery is being used, comes to mind, e.g., were the batteries just idle, or was there also some small but constant current drain present? Battery life in lightly used applications (Vettes, lawn tractors in winter) makes me a huge fan of the little automatic Battery Tenders, FWIW.

Continue at your own risk:blahblah:

FWIW, in the process of the H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid) reacting (combining) with the lead plates to form lead sulfate (PbSO4), electrons are freed up, thus providing electricity. This is a normal phenomenon and is quintessential to the operation in lead-acid (H2SO4) batteries. The chemical reaction is reversed in the charging process; the free H2 displaces the Pb in the sulfate compound to reform H2SO4.

However, over time the lead sulfate morphs into a crystalline substance - a process that is not easily reversed - at least in the normal battery environment. The crystalline structure insulates the exposed lead plates from the sulphuric acid and thus reduces the effective area of the exposed lead plates. And, since the crystalline stuff will not readily convert back, some of the lead and sulfate are lost to the battery process "forever", i.e., the capacity of the battery is diminished.

Crystallization is not immediate; it takes time for the crystallization to occur, and the process is greatly impeded by the act of charging the battery. Therefore, in a daily driver situation, the battery is not idle long enough for much crystallization to occur before the battery is being charged again. Thus the formation of the crystalline stuff is arrested, and during charging most of those random locations where crystallization has begun tend to be sloughed off as precipitate to collect in the bottom of the (wet) cell. (In time the level of the sulfate rises to the bottom of the lead and zinc plates, effectively shorting out the cell. When this occurs the car battery will loose approx 2.2 volts across the terminals; 2 volts being the approximate output of a lead-acid battery cell)

The key to longevity is the charging process. Charging repels the sulfate process. And therein lies a possible problem: Shelf life. There was a time when batteries were shipped w/o the (acid) installed, just for that reason. We used to wait until the battery was sold before putting the electrolyte in and then it had to be charged for a few hours before it was ready. But, the handling of sulphuric acid and the safety precautions/liability for the average department store clerk is too much to be expected. So, batteries are filled and allowed to sit for heaven knows how long...quietly sufating away, regardless of whether it is a WalMart or AutoZone or whatever...it happens. (According to one source I read, a lead-acid battery will sulfate at roughly 1% per week, initially, and accelerate as the process progresses. The article said that a (lead-acid car battery) left at room temperature for a year w/o being charged would be essentially usless for the intended purpose. (I wonder about checking or asking about dates and shelf life before buying a lead-acid off the shelf. Fresh = better, I recon.)

Sometimes a battery left unattended for a period can be de-sulfated (to an extent) by way of a high level charging current. The high current causes the sulfate to break up to precipitate to the bottom of the cell, thus exposing the remaining lead surface for electrolysis - rejuvenation, as it were. To control the heat that is generated by the high current (that would severely damage the battery), the charging current is pulsed, aka a "duty cycle". The current pulses dislodge the sulfate, and the off time allows the electrolyte to cool between pulses. (However, I would never "de-sulfate" a battery while in my car(s). After all, the process intentionally stresses the battery, and if something goes wrong with the charger, or the pulse width combined with the ambient temperature results in excessive temperature, then hydrogen will come out of suspension and the battery will boil: add a spark and BOOM!)

Well, all the way around the barn to the Wally World batteries again...I believe (perhaps to get around the shelf life problem) their top of the line batteries come with a 3(?) year warranty for a 100% replacement - or at least mine do. After the initial warranty period the replacement refund is pro-rated over the remainder of the warranty period. (Been a while since I have had to buy one.;))

In my biz, batteries and their care play a big role. That said, I'm not a chemist, so please forgive me if the chemical process I eluded to are not absolutely and 100% purely correct. (aka a disclaimer";))

P.

[xlr8nflorida]

Wow! That is totally outside of the realm of "normal", and contrary to anything I've experienced with them.:icon_scra How the battery is being used, comes to mind, e.g., were the batteries just idle, or was there also some small but constant current drain present? Battery life in lightly used applications (Vettes, lawn tractors in winter) makes me a huge fan of the little automatic Battery Tenders, FWIW.

Continue at your own risk:blahblah:

FWIW, in the process of the H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid) reacting (combining) with the lead plates to form lead sulfate (PbSO4), electrons are freed up, thus providing electricity. This is a normal phenomenon and is quintessential to the operation in lead-acid (H2SO4) batteries. The chemical reaction is reversed in the charging process; the free H2 displaces the Pb in the sulfate compound to reform H2SO4.

However, over time the lead sulfate morphs into a crystalline substance - a process that is not easily reversed - at least in the normal battery environment. The crystalline structure insulates the exposed lead plates from the sulphuric acid and thus reduces the effective area of the exposed lead plates. And, since the crystalline stuff will not readily convert back, some of the lead and sulfate are lost to the battery process "forever", i.e., the capacity of the battery is diminished.

Crystallization is not immediate; it takes time for the crystallization to occur, and the process is greatly impeded by the act of charging the battery. Therefore, in a daily driver situation, the battery is not idle long enough for much crystallization to occur before the battery is being charged again. Thus the formation of the crystalline stuff is arrested, and during charging most of those random locations where crystallization has begun tend to be sloughed off as precipitate to collect in the bottom of the (wet) cell. (In time the level of the sulfate rises to the bottom of the lead and zinc plates, effectively shorting out the cell. When this occurs the car battery will loose approx 2.2 volts across the terminals; 2 volts being the approximate output of a lead-acid battery cell)

The key to longevity is the charging process. Charging repels the sulfate process. And therein lies a possible problem: Shelf life. There was a time when batteries were shipped w/o the (acid) installed, just for that reason. We used to wait until the battery was sold before putting the electrolyte in and then it had to be charged for a few hours before it was ready. But, the handling of sulphuric acid and the safety precautions/liability for the average department store clerk is too much to be expected. So, batteries are filled and allowed to sit for heaven knows how long...quietly sufating away, regardless of whether it is a WalMart or AutoZone or whatever...it happens. (According to one source I read, a lead-acid battery will sulfate at roughly 1% per week, initially, and accelerate as the process progresses. The article said that a (lead-acid car battery) left at room temperature for a year w/o being charged would be essentially usless for the intended purpose. (I wonder about checking or asking about dates and shelf life before buying a lead-acid off the shelf. Fresh = better, I recon.)

Sometimes a battery left unattended for a period can be de-sulfated (to an extent) by way of a high level charging current. The high current causes the sulfate to break up to precipitate to the bottom of the cell, thus exposing the remaining lead surface for electrolysis - rejuvenation, as it were. To control the heat that is generated by the high current (that would severely damage the battery), the charging current is pulsed, aka a "duty cycle". The current pulses dislodge the sulfate, and the off time allows the electrolyte to cool between pulses. (However, I would never "de-sulfate" a battery while in my car(s). After all, the process intentionally stresses the battery, and if something goes wrong with the charger, or the pulse width combined with the ambient temperature results in excessive temperature, then hydrogen will come out of suspension and the battery will boil: add a spark and BOOM!)

Well, all the way around the barn to the Wally World batteries again...I believe (perhaps to get around the shelf life problem) their top of the line batteries come with a 3(?) year warranty for a 100% replacement - or at least mine do. After the initial warranty period the replacement refund is pro-rated over the remainder of the warranty period. (Been a while since I have had to buy one.;))

In my biz, batteries and their care play a big role. That said, I'm not a chemist, so please forgive me if the chemical process I eluded to are not absolutely and 100% purely correct. (aka a disclaimer";))

P.

:iamwithst

I think your battery is toast. Get it load tested and get a new one from Walmart. Ctek does bring back some batteries that other charges can't.
In regards to it blowing up in the car its not going to as a result to of the way the Ctek operates plus the fact that you are going to ground the negative on a bolt down by your headers/manifolds.

The MULTI US 3300
has a patented method for reconditioning sulfated
batteries. The charger analyzes the state of the battery
and, if possible, recovers the battery and its
power.

http://www.ctek.com/PDF/MUS3300_flyer_US_low.pdf

[Paul Workman]

:iamwithst

I think your battery is toast. Get it load tested and get a new one from Walmart. Ctek does bring back some batteries that other charges can't.
In regards to it blowing up in the car its not going to as a result to of the way the Ctek operates plus the fact that you are going to ground the negative on a bolt down by your headers/manifolds.

The MULTI US 3300
has a patented method for reconditioning sulfated
batteries. The charger analyzes the state of the battery
and, if possible, recovers the battery and its
power.

http://www.ctek.com/PDF/MUS3300_flyer_US_low.pdf

I looked at the Ctek 3300 before I bought the waterproof, 800 mA Battery Tender (http://www.pacificbattery.com/batterytender0150.html). I chose the 800 mA BT because I have a Black and Decker (http://blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/CategoryOverview.aspx?cPath=4010.4013)heav(ier) duty charger for general battery maintenance (7 in all :rolleyes:) out here in the sticks. And, I was/am a little dubious of the Ctek's claims to fame (based on nothing but suspicion welled up in me by the amount of sales hype for it).

The BD is pretty comprehensive, but occasionally 'round here a battery gets run down pretty flat, and the BD's condition analysis decides the battery is kaput, rather than just severely discharged (and a "little sulfided"). So, I keep a dumb charger around to trickle a "dead" battery over night; wake it up to the point the BD will recognize it as just severely discharged and initiate it's recovery routine.

The 800 mA BT is automatic to a degree - in that it will detect a fully charged battery and fall back to a "keep alive"; a process where it kicks the battery with a little pulse to ward off sufation and keep the charge up.

[xlr8nflorida]

I looked at the Ctek 3300 before I bought the waterproof, 800 mA Battery Tender (http://www.pacificbattery.com/batterytender0150.html). I chose the 800 mA BT because I have a Black and Decker (http://blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/CategoryOverview.aspx?cPath=4010.4013)heav(ier) duty charger for general battery maintenance (7 in all :rolleyes:) out here in the sticks. And, I was/am a little dubious of the Ctek's claims to fame (based on nothing but suspicion welled up in me by the amount of sales hype for it).

The BD is pretty comprehensive, but occasionally 'round here a battery gets run down pretty flat, and the BD's condition analysis decides the battery is kaput, rather than just severely discharged (and a "little sulfided"). So, I keep a dumb charger around to trickle a "dead" battery over night; wake it up to the point the BD will recognize it as just severely discharged and initiate it's recovery routine.

The 800 mA BT is automatic to a degree - in that it will detect a fully charged battery and fall back to a "keep alive"; a process where it kicks the battery with a little pulse to ward off sufation and keep the charge up.

FWIW,

P.

Well, Ferrari , Lamb porsche aston martin bentley, mercedes benz, all use Ctek - that says something to me. Just like Mobil 1 is factory fill for Corvettes and other top performing sports cars.

I've had my Ctek for years and it never has had any issues whatsoever. I don't want to mess with multiple battery chargers etc like you are having to do. Also, CTEK is the only charger that has Pulse mode - the battery tender does not. CTEK also has more features and more Safety features built into it.

Battery tender is $50. Ctek is $79 but can be had for $50 too. You can't compare the two in build either.
You can run the Ctek over with your car. The battery tender is cheap plastic.

http://www.gekgo.com/images/battery-tender-wp.jpg

http://www.nexternal.com/vacmotors/images/ctek%203300.jpg

[XfireZ51]

Tried to reason with my wife, as the 92 is going to be rarely driven and as the 90 is only alloted 3K miles per year, I really need a third to give me 6K per year to drive on. Really, it only makes sense.

If I recall, you've described your wife as a hot blooded Italian. Sicilian specifically.
I wouldn't be surprised that, if after pushing it just a bit too far, you may find an oily cylinder head "ported" by PW at the foot of your bed. Just her way of making you an offer you can't refuse. :eek:

[xlr8nflorida]

Your charger is excellent and probably one of the most popular.
I'm just saying that all things considered and if the price is the same, I believe CTEK to be a better value. You feel the CTEK is hype which is your opinion and totally cool. I believe having top quality cars endorse your product probably has some merit to it just like Mobil 1 being factory fill has merit.

Everyone will just have to judge for themselves and make their own educated opinion. To me, the metal case alone makes it stand above a piece of plastic.

Sorry, if you felt it was a dick measuring contest. :cheers:

[Paul Workman]

Your charger is excellent and probably one of the most popular.
I'm just saying that all things considered and if the price is the same, I believe CTEK to be a better value. You feel the CTEK is hype which is your opinion and totally cool. I believe having top quality cars endorse your product probably has some merit to it just like Mobil 1 being factory fill has merit.

Everyone will just have to judge for themselves and make their own educated opinion. To me, the metal case alone makes it stand above a piece of plastic.

Sorry, if you felt it was a dick measuring contest. :cheers:

Bad choice of words on my part. Was trying to be cute, but it looked ugly after re-reading. No worries, my friend. And, I pulled it.:cheers:

P.

[rhipsher]

Speaking of batteries. Friday at the last minute my boss says I'm gonna need you to work Saturday:censored: I'm salary so it's free labor for him and they love that. It's been 18 -20 degrees all week. Neighbors pipes bursting in every other house on the block. Both car batteries dead. Haven't driven the Z in two weeks. It stays in the garage all of the time. It fires right up so I had to use it to go to work in and run around after work getting batteries for the other cars. I take both batteries into Orielly's and the guy says they are still under warranty. Both didn't cost me a dime. So I was glad about that. Usually the Texas heat is what kills batteries. I've had them explode under the hood. But this time it's the cold thats doing it.