Post deletes??

[Aurora40]

So I posted a question on why CF urls are stripped out from posts.

Anyway, I get a PM with the explanation that it will result in new people going to CF instead of posting here. I don't buy that, but ok apparently that's the reason. I can accept it.

But then I notice the whole thread is just gone. Not locked, but removed. And there was no mention of that in the initial PM I received.

I asked if I violated any forum rules or something without knowing it. Nope, but the topic had been discussed before, so it was removed. I don't see how it matters that different people once discussed it, but I'd think at least just lock it with that comment if you don't want it being discussed again.

Now I've gotten PMs from people saying they had replied to the thread. I never got to see them, so I don't know how many people it was nor what their opinion was.

I have to say, I find this sort of moderation to be surprising given the fairly small and friendly nature of the board here. Is this a common tactic here? Just wipe out stuff you don't agree with? Any non-Hadi folks ever had their threads removed for no clear reason? :dontknow:

[ZZZZZR1]

I saw your post as well and there wasn't anything "wrong" with it.... Makes no sense why it was deleted.


Also I have asked why no links to the CF and got the same explanation. Personally I think we should be able to link up posts and it would not take away from out Membership. I don't like to post up negatives about our site (I proudly heavily promote it to friends in person and post up links on the CF to OUR site) and think our site is well run! The use of this forum has grown tremendously in the past 3 years and many of our hard core guys have made this happen!!!!!

I hope we will reconsider deleting posts (sending PM's to people that get posts deleted) and allowing links to other Corvette websites.


Cheers

David

[QB93Z]

I agree with you Bob. The CF link ban has bothered me for a long time. I got a similar PM when I asked about a year ago.

I am very surprised that your entire thread was deleted.

I would like to see a reply from someone on the Board of Directors of the ZR-1 Net Registry explaining if and why the link ban is in place.

Jim

[Kevin]

CF doesn't allow for other forum linking, last I was there which has been a while since I was banned. I see no reason to link to that site whatever the official reason is. hell I see no reason to even go there for ZR-1 related stuff, we've got the best of the best here. however deleting posts is something I'd like to see end

[flyin ryan]

Waste of time going there anyways...I rarely go anymore.

[Dynomite]

So I posted a question on why CF urls are stripped out from posts.

I have to say, I find this sort of moderation to be surprising given the fairly small and friendly nature of the board here.

I concur :thumbsup:

Is this a common tactic here?

I do not think it is common or a tactic ;)

Any non-Hadi folks ever had their threads removed for no clear reason? :dontknow:

I have seen a non-Hadi thread removed....so answer is yes :D

[GOLDCYLON]

Was not me Bob :dontknow:

[Jeffvette]

Bob, the issue at one point and time that people were not posting content here. They would rather cut and paste a url to CF and say get your info here. And well, people still sometimes do it.

The Z Registry is it's own living breathing entity and should be treated as such. We support our vehicles and the content should live here as well.

[WB9MCW]

My Observations

There are many ZR-1 Forums
CF
DC
CAC
CV
EES
and until last year CF (Crossed Flags)

I have posted and am a member on them all.

ZR-1 Brotherhood is great no matter where you go and diversity is what makes the USA great and what it truly is.

After all the world would be a really boring place if we were all the same.

Now as far as CF goes. The mod's and rules there have resulted in many a PO and banned ZRONER.

One by one at at one point many came over here to hang out at the true home of the BEAST.

No reason that one should feel that they can't hang out in more than one forum -- remember the diversity comment --

But at the end of the day the true home of the beast is here and this has always been the goal of this forum -- To be the home base for the active ZR-1 owner where the largest concentration of the owners hang out and swap stories and mechanical knowledge about our pride and joy.

I think we have arrived. It has been a long journey since I joined and only a few were here in the early days.

As any group grows you always tend to see a bit of tension and and a problem arise every now and then. It is the nature of human interaction. Remember the famous quote "Why can't we all just get along"?

========

My Opinion

The Mods have done a great job here over the years. Must be that great pay they receive for their services.

The do not always explain their actions nor to they have to.

Hey I even have certain Vette Babe Photos deleted from time to time that I really can't figure out why or what the problem could have been.

But never fear I move on and don't bother with trivia of needing to know exactly why.

Sometimes in life things are not always fair or explained to us to our total satisfaction.

Take brother HADI for example -- he marches to a different beat of the drum for sure -- and that will always raise attention == some good (diversity) some bad (goofy guy what is up with that nut) but the HADI's of the world is what makes it go around and offers some balance -- a counterpoise if you will that keeps things exciting and not so boring and hum drum.

Enough of the opinion part.

++++++++++++++

We may or may not see the Mod's answer this specific question or offer an explanation for their actions.

By public explanation or in PM's.

It is their prerogative plain and simple.

Life moves on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :cheers:

[tccrab]

Bryan says it all right here:

ZR-1 Brotherhood is great
<snip>
The Mods have done a great job here over the years.
<snip>
The do not always explain their actions nor to they have to.
<snip>
Sometimes in life things are not always fair or explained to us to our total satisfaction.


Nothing more needs said.

Long live the King Of The Hill and his followers.

TomC
"Crabs"

[tomtom72]

I'm sorry for speaking up on this touchy subject.....:o

They have a lot of non-ZR-1 archival info that they recently re-enabled which could be of use to us as eventually we will have some regular C4 issues where giving a link to an alternate reference material could be of assistance. I'm not trying to be obtuse, but chances are due to shear volume of traffic & membership one could expect that there could be more info to be mined? This is JMHO where looking for information is the only objective, links are always helpful.:o

As a new comer to our registry and C4's in general, I sort of need all the help I can find.:redface:

Peace
:cheers:
Tom

[Dynomite]

Bob, the issue at one point and time that people were not posting content here. That is prolly because they were not the experts and were just providing information, giving credit were it was found without being Plagiaristic :D

They would rather cut and paste a url to CF and say get your info here Doing otherwise would be Plagiarism.

And well, people still sometimes do it What is wrong with that exactly ;)
I mean really....everyone here knows the other forums exist and go were the information (questions as well as answeres) is/are. Rarely the information is not here.

Besides....Jeffvette.....why would I spend time on another forum when you are on this forum :D Except I do also have a 1990 L98.

The Z Registry is it's own living breathing entity and should be treated as such. We support our vehicles and the content should live here as well.

The content is where the experts are :thumbsup: and the forum is only as good as the experts who are members when it comes to a technical forum. If you (Jeffvette) move to another forum, I prolly will spend more time there :worship:

This is a very unique forum devoted only to ZR1s, so I doubt any moderator here has to worry about loosing either experts or content and overprotection is just that.....overprotection :happy1:

[Aurora40]

Bob, the issue at one point and time that people were not posting content here. They would rather cut and paste a url to CF and say get your info here. And well, people still sometimes do it.

The Z Registry is it's own living breathing entity and should be treated as such. We support our vehicles and the content should live here as well.

Well it was the thread deletion that really bothered me.

However, if you'd like to discuss the reason for the linking, I'm interested.

I see what you are saying, but I'd just point out, this is the Internet. Content is where you find it. That's how companies like Google work. They want to be where you go to find the content, not where the content comes from. Facebook, twitter, etc, all the same thing.

Content will happen on CF no matter what. There are tons more people, and there are folks with C4's that aren't ZR-1s. But the things they do to their cars are relevant to us. At least some are. If you can post those things up to the site here, we can find them here and discuss them here. If not, well we all have to browse CF as well as here to stay in touch.

I know you got banned a while back there, but do you still browse the site to see what new stuff is going on? I'd go out on a limb and guess you probably do. There is good information there, it'd be silly not to.

I'd much rather discuss that information here though. But it's quite hard to do if you can't provide a link to the starting point.

If you want to be in the content business (which is the model you are suggesting), you'd better have the best content. I don't think that's true. CF has way more content by virtue of its way more members. Even if every single ZR-1 owner was here on this forum, CF would still have more. While I realize this isn't a business in the money-making sense, it is a reasonable analogy the participation sense. I suspect if no one used the forum, you'd consider that a bad thing, even though no money is involved.

My two cents, if you want people to use the site here, have this be the place they can find everything they are interested in. You don't do that by pretending no good info is elsewhere on the web. Rather you do it by consolidating all the good bits of that here.

[FU]

I was alerted to this post by a fellow Registry member. Some of us may have noticed that I have distanced myself from this forum and have not posted here in a while.

We all strive to help each other out in this club , that is just one of the benefits of the club. This is one of the many things that make the club and people as great as it now is. I have witnessed many posts on the CF forum by many of us directing newbies to this site with links. And they were not deleted by the CF mods. At the CF the mods let us get away with much more than if we were posting in other sections outside of the ZR1 specific area. Not defending alot of the censorship that goes on at the CF. Just pointing out an observation.

We can't link to the CF ? Sorry that is not right.. We are showing a lower level than we really are. The censorship of posts here is going on again. Who ever is censoring the threads please stop it. You are driving people away from here. You are deleting post's with no explanation. This is very frustrating. And many of us have spent a lot of time here just as you have trying to build up this site.

While myself and others do still lurk here sometimes , there has been talk about the missing post's here. Due to various posts being deleted and some entire threads gone missing . If there are rules post them and most will try to comply.

Like has been done before , this hasn't been the first , 2nd or 3rd time that this type censorship has come up on our own forum. I'm tired of it. Life is short and I don't appreciate censorship (within reason).

This post that was made here is NOT to bash anyone. It is to help us as a club grow.

Ranting is now over.

Merry Christmas to all !!!!! Stay well and see you at BG , God willing.

[A26B]

Add my name to the list of members who are disappointed to see censorship occurring here. I used to be a CF junkie, because that was where the action was. I moved here because of the pettiness and heavy handed action of the CF moderators. Freedom was what I enjoyed here and confidence by the moderators that we were all here of our own free will. Restrict freedom & members here will leave.

An observation regarding CF's historical posts data base; We can build our data base by cut & paste of CF posts deemed worthy of reference by the member here and avoid plagiarism by simply placing a credit in the post. It's done all the time in technical papers and perfectly acceptable.

Acting as if CF doesn't exist is naive. Allowing copying of CF technical posts (with credits given) here is a smart thing to do. Look at how much ZR-1 reference material would be lost if CF were to shut down!!

Trying to keep new members here by trying to keep them ignorant about other Corvette forums would be a mistake as it assumes they are not very intelligent. After all, they found us somehow. We should try to keep them here with the same concept that makes our country the one that everyone else wants to come to..... life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness.

[Jeffvette]

Well it was the thread deletion that really bothered me.

I saw your thread as well, I suspected it would get boneyarded. It does bother me that it was yanked. I have had a few posts here yanked as well. The last one being my disdain for GM.



I see what you are saying, but I'd just point out, this is the Internet. Content is where you find it. That's how companies like Google work. They want to be where you go to find the content, not where the content comes from. Facebook, twitter, etc, all the same thing.

How often have you been surfing looking for something and found what seems to be a good link, followed it come to a site that is down? I believe the registry will be here for a while, and if the content is here, it will be around longer. Hell it pisses me off when the pics are gone out of posts because people use a crappy photo host.

Content will happen on CF no matter what. There are tons more people, and there are folks with C4's that aren't ZR-1s. But the things they do to their cars are relevant to us. At least some are. If you can post those things up to the site here, we can find them here and discuss them here. If not, well we all have to browse CF as well as here to stay in touch.

There is some limited general C4 topics over here... Suspension/brakes/interior, but yes there is more over there due to shear volume. And always will be more. Doesn't mean that we should not ask here or talk about it.


I know you got banned a while back there, but do you still browse the site to see what new stuff is going on? I'd go out on a limb and guess you probably do. There is good information there, it'd be silly not to.

I do browse there and see what's going on, for the most part it's SOS. Just new people coming in asking the same old stuff. I don't find a whole lot of new info there any more. All the new info is in the C6 section that I pay attention to.



If you want to be in the content business (which is the model you are suggesting), you'd better have the best content. I don't think that's true. CF has way more content by virtue of its way more members. Even if every single ZR-1 owner was here on this forum, CF would still have more. While I realize this isn't a business in the money-making sense, it is a reasonable analogy the participation sense. I suspect if no one used the forum, you'd consider that a bad thing, even though no money is involved.

I think the registry site has way better content on LT5 stuff, yet people are still posting LT5 over at CF. I've seen threads posted on all 4 major sites (Zreg/CF/DC/CAC) and only get answers here. Or at least helpful answers. DC and CAC ZR-1 sections might as well be shut down. At one point the Zreg site was used very little. Dave had talked about shutting it down. I'm glad it survived. It just took a little while to get full steam.



My two cents, if you want people to use the site here, have this be the place they can find everything they are interested in. You don't do that by pretending no good info is elsewhere on the web. Rather you do it by consolidating all the good bits of that here.


There are several of us that do try to make it the best place to come for content. I and several others have posted some excellant threads on projects with pictures.

[Jeffvette]

I was alerted to this post by a fellow Registry member. Some of us may have noticed that I have distanced myself from this forum and have not posted here in a while.



I thought that was because you had gotten all high and mighty with your new Z06. :wave:

[QB93Z]

Bob, the issue at one point and time that people were not posting content here. They would rather cut and paste a url to CF and say get your info here. And well, people still sometimes do it.

The Z Registry is it's own living breathing entity and should be treated as such. We support our vehicles and the content should live here as well.

Thank you for responding Jeff. And thank you for taking the time and effort that you have to provide a lot of interesting and informative posts here on this forum. :thumbsup:

My concern is that the rules and policies for the ZR-1 Net Registry Forum should be set by the Board of Directors and ultimately by the membership of the club.

In addition, the rules and policies of the Forum should be public. As several posts above indicate, that is not the case. As Bob found out, there are policies that are so secret that a thread that asks a question has been deleted.

Since I don't know if your comments represent the opinion of the Board of Directors of the ZR-1 Net Registry, please pass on the the other Board members that we would like to have a clear response to questions about how our club's forum will be run.

Thank you,
Jim

[Jeffvette]

Thank you for responding Jeff.


Jim, I will give you a jingle in a few.

[Z Factor]

While I do not want to diminish peoples feelings/opinions, lets keep things in perspective when throwing around words like censorship. There are occasions that posts and/or entire threads are removed here just like in any forum. At times the reason is self evident, others it is not. While we are happy to try and explain why some of the posts might be removed or edited, it is a time consuming task. If we receive a reported post notification or PM, we look at the post and make a judgment call as to whether it should be left alone or removed. There are times the moderation team does not agree with the decisions of fellow moderators, but Dave, Larry, Dayrll and myself try hard to work together to run the forum fairly and efficiently. We have come a long way from the days only half a handful of people would visit here per day.

Including the CF link issue, I have noted that many posters here have said they have received PM's explaining why a thread or post has been removed. That alone should tell you something. Rest assured that is not typical of most forums out there, and it is something we take pride in.
That said, taking the time to explain every policy or reason why something is removed is time consuming, so it is not always done publicly. However anyone who sends a PM will always get a response from one of us even if it is not the response they had hoped for. There will be times we must agree to disagree and move on. In most cases it is not an earth shattering issue, but rather a particular person is upset and they become insistent that their point of view is correct.
Personally I strive to find common ground, but it is not always possible. What one person finds funny, another person gets offended. Remove the reported thread/post, and the other person is offended. Since we are all adults you hope that things will always be resolved amicably, but that is not always possible.

Hopefully this post has given you a small insight behind the scenes, so to speak. As always feel free to PM anyone on the moderation team and we will try to address your concerns.
For the most part I think the vast majority of forum members are happy with how the forum is run, but we can always strive to do better.

Have a great Christmas and holiday.

JIM
:cheers:

[Dynomite]

For the most part I think the vast majority of forum members are happy with how the forum is run, but we can always strive to do better.

Have a great Christmas and holiday.

JIM
:cheers:

Count me as one of the happy with how the forum is run members :thumbsup:
Have a great Christmas and Happy New Year.

[ZZZZZR1]

While I do not want to diminish peoples feelings/opinions, lets keep things in perspective when throwing around words like censorship. There are occasions that posts and/or entire threads are removed here just like in any forum. At times the reason is self evident, others it is not. While we are happy to try and explain why some of the posts might be removed or edited, it is a time consuming task. If we receive a reported post notification or PM, we look at the post and make a judgment call as to whether it should be left alone or removed. There are times the moderation team does not agree with the decisions of fellow moderators, but Dave, Larry, Dayrll and myself try hard to work together to run the forum fairly and efficiently. We have come a long way from the days only half a handful of people would visit here per day.

Including the CF link issue, I have noted that many posters here have said they have received PM's explaining why a thread or post has been removed. That alone should tell you something. Rest assured that is not typical of most forums out there, and it is something we take pride in.
That said, taking the time to explain every policy or reason why something is removed is time consuming, so it is not always done publicly. However anyone who sends a PM will always get a response from one of us even if it is not the response they had hoped for. There will be times we must agree to disagree and move on. In most cases it is not an earth shattering issue, but rather a particular person is upset and they become insistent that their point of view is correct.
Personally I strive to find common ground, but it is not always possible. What one person finds funny, another person gets offended. Remove the reported thread/post, and the other person is offended. Since we are all adults you hope that things will always be resolved amicably, but that is not always possible.

Hopefully this post has given you a small insight behind the scenes, so to speak. As always feel free to PM anyone on the moderation team and we will try to address your concerns.
For the most part I think the vast majority of forum members are happy with how the forum is run, but we can always strive to do better.

Have a great Christmas and holiday.

JIM
:cheers:

Jim,

You have done an incredible job with getting the forum to the level it is at now and we all appreciate it!!!! You started doing this when there was NO activity and now we have a great 20X the activity with new members joining every day.

I have asked that we "open" links to the CF before and hope we can consider doing this in the future. The Corvette Forum is known for "censorship", but they allow us to openly link up to our site and we do every chance we get! (including you Jim)

I don't agree with some deleting of posts (like Bob's talking about the CF link), but we all have bad days and say something that might be considered rude, which SHOULD be deleted. Moderators are needed, appreciated and our site is flurishing because of it. (Thank you!)

Quesion. Should we allow links to the Corvette Forum? Is this a question that the club members should decide?


Cheers

David

[Kevin]

I'm IP banned at cf so I don't really care about that issue and even if I wasn't I see no reason to post ZR-1 questions other then here or the list serve.

I too hae had posts hacked here and it sucks, I still don't totally understand why it was axed but it was. I had copied it from CF but gave full credit to who originally posted it, oh well the admin felt differently from me..

[QB93Z]

Z Factor (Jim),

Thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread.

Thank you for spending the time and effort to be the administrator of the ZR-1 Net Registry Forum. And thank you to Dave, Larry and Dayrll for being moderators and devoting so much of their time as well.

I am very pleased to a member of the ZR-1 Net Registry and to have this Forum to participate in. I am pleased with the way the forum is run. I do have suggestions that I think will improve the forum:

I work hard to promote local events to encourage area ZR-1 owners to participate. In the regional section of the Forum, we post a lot of links to area shows. Check out thread numbers 9953, 9753, 9231, 8408, and 8472 as examples. The regional section of Corvette Forum has a lot of car show and events listed but since I can't post links to them, it is cumbersome to have to copy and duplicate all of the show info and contact points. Please remove the prohibition on linking to the Corvette Forum.

I think it would improve the Forum if members would fill out their biographical data. It think that it would be reasonable to require that at least a first name and location be displayed for all forum members. I can't see how that would compromise any personal security and it would help the Forum be a friendlier place. Since we are a fairly small group of people spread over a wide geographical area, we need all the help we can muster to get to know one another. A new owner posted recently with a problem with the ZR-1 he had just bought. Because he had filled out his location in his bio, I knew that he was very near one of our active members and they got hooked up to work on the problems. If some one wants to be on our Forum and isn't willing to provide a first name and a location, why do we want them here?

There should be a ZR-1 Net Registry members-only section of the Forum. I know that Dave has been working on it and I appreciate that.

I think the Forum should have a section devoted to NCRS. Many ZR-1 owners and members of the Net Registry participate in the NCRS program and there are some ZR-1 unique issues that would be appropriate to discuss on our Forum.

Thanks for listening,

Jim Voter
443-244-1347

[RICKYRJ1]

Can this issue be put to a vote by the membership?

[gbrtng]

I think it would improve the Forum if members would fill out their biographical data. It think that it would be reasonable to require that at least a first name and location be displayed for all forum members. I can't see how that would compromise any personal security and it would help the Forum be a friendlier place.

I agree wholeheartedly with Jim on this one, and if a newbie posts a question, I look to see who he is first before answering. If there is no bio data, he gets no response.

How many new members are added daily? If one or two average, it might be worth the mods time to put them on restriction only able to post to a few topic areas or only a limited number of posts a day. But then I don't know what features vbulletin has. :icon_scra

[bobbyhi]

No bio??? No posting......

[Hammer]

No bio??? No posting......

I'm with you on this and have been for a number of years. I can't imagine why a member would not want that information known. Unless they are here to spam or create problems. Maybe others will post as to why they don't want to put this information in their bio.