Registry suggestion

[DaveK]

There have been several posts recently by people looking for the various special tools for various jobs on the LT5/ZR-1 and that set me thinking. Would it be possible for the registry to buy a complete set of these tools that could then be loaned to members when needed? This way it would mean that all the members would have access to the tools needed to keep their beasts in top shape and minimise the cost to individuals instead of having to find and buy often expensive and rare tools for infrequent maintenance.

Obviously there would be a cost to buy these, perhaps that could be covered through donations initially (like a 'group buy') or perhaps through a "rent-a-tool" fee.

Thanks

Dave

[QB93Z]

I agree with what you are proposing.

I am a member of a Model A Ford club in the Baltimore area that has a club-owned collection of all of the special tools and equipment to do any job on a Model A. Any club member can check out a tool and use it. The system works well.

Since the ZR-1 Net Registry is an international organization, the system may have to be different than my local Model A club with less than 50 members.

I suggest that a small group of members formulate a plan on how to procure and manage the "loan" of the tools and then make a proposal to the club at a board meeting.

The ZR-1 owners in the Washington DC area (WAZOO) are doing something similar to what you propose, although the tools and parts are all privately owned, and are offered to other WAZOO members for use.

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9915

Jim

[phrogs]

I wany to get a tool set so I can machine a copy of all of the tools I have quite a few of my own already but I want a nice complete set.

The big thing with a set that the registry owns is what kind of time limit would you give a individual using the tools? and what $$ deposite would you require incase they didnt return the tools?

I have borrowed other members tools in the past and was greatly apreciative but I have also broken tools and had to replace them and also probably kept them way past what I should have.

thats why I say what I say because I have done it:redface:

[Hammer]

Great idea.

I think a program similar to the Autozone program would be a good way. You provide a valid credit card to "check out" the tool you need and the replacement cost of the tool would be added to that card. When the tool is returned in operable condition the card is then refunded the amount charged.

[bobbyhi]

Great idea.

I think a program similar to the Autozone program would be a good way. You provide a valid credit card to "check out" the tool you need and the replacement cost of the tool would be added to that card. When the tool is returned in operable condition the card is then refunded the amount charged.


Good idea John. However, there should also be a time limit added somehow.

[xlr8nflorida]

I wany to get a tool set so I can machine a copy of all of the tools I have quite a few of my own already but I want a nice complete set.

The big thing with a set that the registry owns is what kind of time limit would you give a individual using the tools? and what $$ deposite would you require incase they didnt return the tools?

I have borrowed other members tools in the past and was greatly apreciative but I have also broken tools and had to replace them and also probably kept them way past what I should have.

thats why I say what I say because I have done it:redface:

:iamwithst Also, it seems like a full time job just to keep track of that "Heart of the Beast" Book that is loaned out to members. In theory it seems nice, I think you would just have to have a strict policy and monetary penalty if you don't obey the rules and timeframes.

[tomtom72]

:o JMHO, but I agree with John and Jim.

Please not trying to say it's a bad idea. I just think that we might be better off looking at it from another direction.

I feel strongly that we should not involve the NetReg in any official way ( unless we can pull a discounted group buy thru it).
We should take a head's up from the local guys like the FBI & WAZZO and Jim's experience with the Model T guys.

I think that if we divide into regional groups where there are enough wrenchin' types in each group to make a "group buy" financially easy on the wallet.

We figure out how many sets we will need. Approach the guys that are members who are engine builders and or machinists, or the guys that do this stuff often, so we get the skinny on what is possible & how to properly use the stuff, and any other tips they want to share with our groups.

Maybe with that knowledge we will know if we then could use the NetReg's contacts as an entry point to actually buy how ever many tool sets we need and if we will get a price consideration from the source. Or, with guys that are machinists, maybe we could actually make the stuff? That part I don't know anything about because I'm not a machinist.

Then if we get a source or sources for the tools, and know how much $$ we need per set, the local groups can organize the cash for the buys. Then each local group will decide the rules for tool check out, what to do when new owners come into our registry and what to do when people leave.

Sorry to be so long. JMHO:redface:

:cheers:
Tom

[DaveK]

Hi Tom

The only issue I can see with that is that it would probably leave groups where there are few ZR-1s kind of out in the cold and stuck with the same kind of problem.

The suggestion of John's about the credit card 'checkout' sounds like a good one. Obviously any program of this type has to balance availability with security of the tools themselves. Bob is also right about needing a timelimit. Something like max of 1 month. That would be enough time to do any job I would say, if you can't get it done in that time then you probably weren't ready to do the job when you requested the tool.

The person loaning should also pick up any shipping costs - both ways.

Just my thoughts.

[Jagdpanzer]

Can those knowledgeable post up a list of the ZR-1 and LT5 tools with three categories:
"A" Those that are essential for building up an LT5 that cannot be readily improvised or duplicated in a typical shop.

"B" Those that are needed but can be improvised, duplicated, or worked around.

"C" Important special tools to have for the rest of the the ZR-1.

A good improvised example are the cylinder liner hold downs that HAWAIIZR-1 was asking about the other day where JeffVette and lbszr had a couple of acceptable alternatives that would do the job just fine and save having to run out an spend a lot of money on hard to find special Kent-Moore LT5 tools.

I have a home machine shop in the basement that is probably capable of fabricating most of the mechanical tools if I had sufficient details on the originals. For example Last year I produce a full set of special tools needed for rebuilding the C4 Dana 44 rearend.

[tomtom72]

I agree with Jag's post. I guess that's what I was thinking....:o


Hi Dave!:wave: I agree with your assessment of there will be some of us out in the cold....I'll be one of them more than likely. It will be up to us out in the cold guys to ally ourselves with the closest "group". It can't be helped as in some spots we are spread pretty thin. I just feel the more "local" the ownership is, the more flexibility there will be with regards to the loan out rules. JMHO

I just feel that the registry should not be responsible for making the investment in the purchase of tools. I'm sure I don't understand all the 'political' & financial in's & out's of running the registry so it's just an opinion that I hold concerning the tool purchase. :o

:cheers:

[DaveK]

Hi Tom

I agree the registry shouldn't bear the cost. Thats why I suggested some kind of group buy/contribution to fund the purchase. I just thought it might be easier centrally administered. Local groups would be another possibility, though the overall cost t each group (and therefore member) would be higher of course.

Just throwing ideas out :)

Perhaps we need to do a survey of who would be interested?

Dave

[QB93Z]

I think that the idea needs to be explored further. We need a list of the tools we are talking about as Jag suggested. Once we know the scope of the collection, we can start making some specific suggestions.

Dave, as the OP, maybe you can get this thread moved to the General Section where it will get more looks.

Jim

[DaveK]

That's a good suggestion Jim. I can't move the thread but perhaps one of the moderators will be kind enough to do that.

Thanks

Dave

[tomtom72]

Dave, I was not trying to be obtuse with you. Sorry if I'm coming across that way. :cheers:

:redface:
I just figured that if after some research we determine what we can't have made by our member machinists ( if they would like to help ) that we still should be left with enough volume that if the Registry has any "hooks" with any one we could see some savings from that respect.

Realistically, I can't see this being an inexpensive thing in any form. ( LT5 tools for motor work will carry the traditional corvette tax, plus the ZR-1 tax, plus the "so you wanna build your own LT5's" Tax[-X....sorry couldn't resist! )

:cheers:
Tom

Hey, everyone have a good Gobble Gobble Day!:mrgreen:

[Dynomite]

Knowing the quality of ZR-1 Net registry members, another option is just for members (with special tools :D) who might be willing to lend the tools out to just list the tools they have (tools, point of contact and location). Any one can then make an offer for use of the tool and in that way many more tools would be available for use and maybe much closer to those who are in need of "special tools" :thumbsup:

Or in the case of a "small ZR1 club" situation, each member chips in on a special tool. In the case of the ZR1 Net registry, the "club" is a bit large and the tools would not always be available or close enough to your locality when you want them ;)

[DaveK]

Dave, I was not trying to be obtuse with you. Sorry if I'm coming across that way. :cheers:

:redface:
I just figured that if after some research we determine what we can't have made by our member machinists ( if they would like to help ) that we still should be left with enough volume that if the Registry has any "hooks" with any one we could see some savings from that respect.

Realistically, I can't see this being an inexpensive thing in any form. ( LT5 tools for motor work will carry the traditional corvette tax, plus the ZR-1 tax, plus the "so you wanna build your own LT5's" Tax[-X....sorry couldn't resist! )

:cheers:
Tom

Hey, everyone have a good Gobble Gobble Day!


Not at all Tom :thumbsup: To me is a great discussion throwing out ideas on a possible idea that might benefit all the members. You're right that whatever way it was done it wouldn't be 'cheap' by definition. If some of the people who are machinists can duplicate some of these tools then that might be a good way of doing it (if they are willing and able to donate their time).

"so you wanna build your own LT5's" Tax??? Damn, I overlooked that one ;)

Dave

[QB93Z]

I don't see it as an all or nothing deal. We don't have to have a complete set of every tool GM ever made.

Even if we start with a just a few LT5 tools and establish a workable system to loan out and get back the tools, we will have accomplished a lot.

I would like to hear more discussion about how a tool inventory could be controlled and what the potential pitfalls are. For example:

- What is a reasonable time frame to hold/use the tool?

- Should the tool be held by the last user and then shipped to the next requesting user, or returned to a central holding point?

- How do we verify membership? Would there be a separate list of authorized tool users.

- What form of "collaterial" would be sufficient to ensure that the tools are returned in a timely manner?

- What happens if a tool gets damaged or lost?

- How much risk is the group willing to take to make the system work? For example if a tool has a $500 value, what impact would its loss have on the user group? Would the group be willing to asorb that loss and continue to loan tools?

- If we created a Tool User Contract, what items/rules should it contain?

What say you?

Jim

[Jeffvette]

Realistically, are we talking about just a cylinder head pull, or are we talking about a complete motor tear down?

[1990 415]

In a perfect world this is a great idea, however we live in reality. Many of the speciality tools are quite expensive which is why most guys don't have them. This plan of loaning them out and expecting them returned unharmed in a timely manner doesn't seem very realistic. There are too many uncertainties for such a loaner program to be very successful.

[tomtom72]

:mad: at myself for being so PC illiterate!

To Jeff,
I was looking at the page on the netreg site and I guess the prices are out of date, no? I was thinking that at $642.00 + shipping I could have an 'overhaul kit'? Is that enough to do a rebuild, or head r&r? That's less than I spent on headers or tires.

Jim,
I don't have very many good answers.:redface: mainly because I don't know how much money is involved as I'm leery of the prices at the netreg site.

Time Frame: to me it depends upon what operation is being done, first time or not, how much help is the member going to get. This is my reasoning for "local groups" like WAZOO & FBI.

Storage: Centrally. User pays ship to & from. That's why I put forth "local groups" like WAZOO & FBI as examples.

Membership number from NetRegistry? If the Reg can help us on price, then you have to be a dues paying member....sorry I know how that sounds.

You break it, you buy another. You have to be a member of the local group to partake in the program, so you already put up $, in theory you will be careful because they are your tools...in a sense, no? Shipping insurance?

Collateral: Local group vote on that. I don't have an idea, I'm a cash kind of guy.:redface:

Tools don't leave the group membership. You have to have skin in the game to be able to use the stuff. I know that's cold, sorry.

Sorry, I know there needs to be more flesh, but these are my "off the cuff" thoughts.:o

:cheers:
Tom

Another thought just drifted across my mind. Each group would have to determine how "deep" into an LT5 that they want to be able to go. I was thinking of stuff like a Deck Plate. You would have to be able to hone liners to justify having one of those, right? I could be more thoughtful if I knew more about rebuilding an LT5. In the 70's you sent the big stuff to the machine shop....I guess not with our motors? That's why I wanted guidance from the guys that have already built LT5's. Maybe we could ask for a seminar to be given at this Gathering on this subject? Bad idea, right?

Dave, Thank you! Oh, I'm not a communist...the crack about our "member machinists" helping us was not an attempt by me to imply "FREE" was involved. My apologies to our member machinists.

[DaveK]

Dave, Thank you! Oh, I'm not a communist...the crack about our "member machinists" helping us was not an attempt by me to imply "FREE" was involved. My apologies to our member machinists.

That would be "comrade machinists" wouldn't it? :)

I wouldn't 'expect' any machinists to give away their time. I was thinking more in terms of duplicating hard to find tools.

Thanks

Dave

[carter200]

I resemble the machinist statement so guess I'll step-up and say I'm in on making tools. Might need a break on material cost depending on the item, though. Just an offer..............

[tomtom72]

:sign10: Yes, "Kamarad Machinists" in my thickest Kremlin accent while I try to mimic Putin!

Carter, and all the other "Comrade Machinists":cheers:
Material and skill put to said material costs money. Payment is necessary to obtain a product. To me it's that simple. I thank you, and any others that have the skill to help, for offering your time to guide us so we can know what is possible. I trust in all of our brothers to be more than fair when it comes to dealing inside our Brotherhood.:thumbsup:

:redface:JMHO:mrgreen:

[phrogs]

What needs to happen is someone with a complete set of tools would need to send them to someone like carter so he can look them over measure them and see what he thinks it would cost to make them.

I was a machinist many years ago and looking over all of the tools from the ones I made myself to just photos of the other nothing in this kit to do a complete rebuild would be copied without a problem.

The cost aspect of these tools is kent more was smoking crack on the prices!