Oil and ZDDP

[secondchance]

When I read the thread titled "which oil do you use in the beast" I started thinking about this ZDDP level and it's possible implication on our LT5s.
Owner's manual and FSM for 94 states "SH" rating for the LT5.

According to Marc Haibeck, his reasoning behind recommending Amsoil AMO 10W40 (phosphrus .125% and zinc .138%) is due to current Mobil 1 5W30 and 10W30 with SM designation having reduced level of phosphorus (800 ppm - .08%) and zinc (900 ppm - .09%).

Upon search there are a lot of pre 1990 car forums where concerns are being expressed and even Mobil seems to acknowledge these concerns to a point of recommending their 0W40 or 15W50 racing oil. Some are resorting to motor oil intended for diesel or turbo diesel motor for this reason.

I for one, do not care to run around town or resort to mail order and pay $8 for a quart of oil. Quite frankly I have been using Moil 1 since 1985 and I can get them for $34 a six pack at local Costco. Also, I appreciate the fact that I can run into Moil or Exxon and get a quart in a pinch.

Then, I ran into this product called ZDDPlus. This seems to be ZDDP (zinc dialkyl dithio phosphate) concentrate being marketed to address reduction in ZDDP in most readily available motor oil reformulated to meet concern over catalytic converter longevity possibly at an expence of ignoring needs of older cars.

Based on ZDDPlus calculation comparing phosphate and zinc level boost relative to other similar products, I calculated one 4oz bottle when mixed to 8.5 quarts (because that's what gets changed and for the first application a little extra would be needed) will boost phosphate by 616 ppm and zinc by 873 ppm.

When added to Mobil 1 5W30 or 10W30 with phosphate 800 ppm and zinc content of 900 ppm resulting mix will be 1415 ppm and 1773 ppm respectively. Now, ZDDPlus recommends adding one 4oz bottle to 5 quarts but based on my calculation one bottle would be sufficient to end up with a brew w/ slightly more levels then the Amsoil AMO blend.

As for the cost, I bought 3x4oz bottles for $25 and free shipping on ebay.

Based on my quick review of web posts, perhaps not as severe as ohv high performance engine w/ after market cams and springs but I do feel uncomfortabe that SM grade I have been using in my car has deficient level of zinc and phosphate then what was specified for our LT5.

For this reason I will be adding a bottle of ZDDPlus in the crank case. But, just in case, I wanted to post this and get your reaction to my logic and decision.

Some useful websites that helped me whether I should be concerned and also helped me with calculation:

http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/Modern%20Motor%20Oil%20and%20the%20LT5%20Engine.pd f
https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf
http://www.crower.com/dl/ZDDP_clr.pdf
https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/ZDDP_Levels_Classic_Cars.aspx
https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Flat_Tappet_Engines.aspx

[xlr8nflorida]

You have done your research.

You need to be careful with that product or anything that adds zinc because it can be detrimental to your Cats. If you measure out everything good, you should be good to go and also sending your oil away for an oil analysis might be a good thing as well. (old Mobil 1 that is spent and then ZDDP mixed up with Mobil spent)

I would just go with Mobil 1 High Mileage or that new Turbo oil they have.

I don't know too much about the Turbo so I'd be more inclined to go with the High Mileage version.

That being said, even if the Zinc is low in the regular oil, I don't think it will matter much unless you are piling on ton of mileage onto your LT5.

Being proactive is a good thing though.

[secondchance]

You have done your research.

You need to be careful with that product or anything that adds zinc because it can be detrimental to your Cats. If you measure out everything good, you should be good to go and also sending your oil away for an oil analysis might be a good thing as well. (old Mobil 1 that is spent and then ZDDP mixed up with Mobil spent)

I would just go with Mobil 1 High Mileage or that new Turbo oil they have.

I don't know too much about the Turbo so I'd be more inclined to go with the High Mileage version.

That being said, even if the Zinc is low in the regular oil, I don't think it will matter much unless you are piling on ton of mileage onto your LT5.

Being proactive is a good thing though.

I agree with your concern over cat. That is why oil manufacturers started to reduce ZDDP level. I figure I would rather risk my cats then engine internals. That is why I ran the calculation and settled on 4oz per change as opposed to 4 0z per 5qts.
I have considered high mileage Mobil 1 also. But according to the Mobil chart it's phosphorus content is 900 and zinc is 1000, still shy of SG level.

[xlr8nflorida]

I agree with your concern over cat. That is why oil manufacturers started to reduce ZDDP level. I figure I would rather risk my cats then engine internals. That is why I ran the calculation and settled on 4oz per change as opposed to 4 0z per 5qts.
I have considered high mileage Mobil 1 also. But according to the Mobil chart it's phosphorus content is 900 and zinc is 1000, still shy of SG level.

Opinions are like asses, everyone has one. I'm not oil expert. My father has some machinery where the engines are several hundred thousand a piece and he relies on constant oil analysis. It's amazing what an analysis can tell you.

I also gather from speaking to some of the oil guys that when you add additives to oil, it can change the overall oil characteristics which is why I call stuff like STP etc Snake Oil.

For myself, I think I'm going to use an oil that is almost on the # of zinc content. If the Mobil High Mileage is it then I'll use that with the minimal amt of ZDDP to meet the standards. I have no concern for Cats in my particular situation.

I spoke with the Mobil guy at Petit Lemans and he said use the Turbo version coming out. I'm not going to say he did not know his stuff but honestly he seemed like a lower level employee who was there to represent Mobil. I'd rather hear it from a high level engineer at Mobil.

Sounds like a good ? for Haibeck especially since he did the article for the registry newsletter and recommended Amsoil. I emailed him to get his thoughts on it.

[secondchance]

Actually SG designation did not stipulate minimum but rather a maximum.
Also, since zinc and phosphate additive in oil is added in form of ZDDP (zincdialkyldithiophosphate) proportion between zinc and phosphate proportion is constant.
Based on my calculation I can control final ppm level of phosphate and zinc level is determined by final phosphate percentage. For an example. 2oz would result in 1108 ppm of phosphate and zinc will end up being 1335 ppm.
In essence any oil with 1108 ppm ends up with 1335 ppm of zinc, if I am not mistaken.
The fact that it only takes 2oz to do this would mean minimal effect on basic formulation of oil before the addition.
It seems reduction of ZDDP probably occurred back in 2006 or 2007. Since then I have put on about 10,000 to 15,000 miles.
I will most likely add a set of headers next year at which point I will leave the cats off and go to metallic cats later if I decide to register in VA anyway. Perhaps it's the best time to try this out and see.
For sure, after say 2,000 miles I will have a sample sent for analysis and see if indeed my calc was correct. One thing for sure, I will not go by manufacturer's suggestion and use 4oz per 5 qts.
I am curious about Marc's thought for sure.

[32valvZ]

Its a whole lot easier to just buy the damn Amsoil and be done with it. I dont "like" paying the $8./qt either, but its not really that big a deal.

[secondchance]

Its a whole lot easier to just buy the damn Amsoil and be done with it. I dont "like" paying the $8./qt either, but its not really that big a deal.

Well, I figure it's a lot easier to find Moil 1 when I need it and I just hate to mix the oil with another brand just because I forgot to carry an extra quart. Also, I prefer 5W30 to 10W40 during the winter months. Colder temp lower viscosity...

[tomtom72]

Okay, I'm guilty of using M1 w/the silver cap from COSTCO also! I do add the ZDDP from the turbo buick site. I alternate doing the 4oz/5qt and the next time it's just one 4oz bottle. I worry as NYS does test and the cats take the hit.

I have resisted long enough, ever since Marc's write up on Amsoil. I am about to order enough quantity to get me thru a yr at a time. I recently bought two 5qt jugs of Valvolene full syn @ autozone. They were destined for the Z, but upon further review they will be used in the Cobalt.:redface:

You guys down at WAZOO should open up a commercial account because there are enough of you to make it worth while, JMHO. You could do "oil change days"!:occasion1

I guess what I'm saying is that I give up as I can't take the nightmares any longer with the ZDDP levels and our beloved LT5's. I'm going the mail order route. Hopefully the anxiety will cease!:hal:

[secondchance]

Okay, I'm guilty of using M1 w/the silver cap from COSTCO also! I do add the ZDDP from the turbo buick site. I alternate doing the 4oz/5qt and the next time it's just one 4oz bottle. I worry as NYS does test and the cats take the hit.

I have resisted long enough, ever since Marc's write up on Amsoil. I am about to order enough quantity to get me thru a yr at a time. I recently bought two 5qt jugs of Valvolene full syn @ autozone. They were destined for the Z, but upon further review they will be used in the Cobalt.:redface:

You guys down at WAZOO should open up a commercial account because there are enough of you to make it worth while, JMHO. You could do "oil change days"!:occasion1

I guess what I'm saying is that I give up as I can't take the nightmares any longer with the ZDDP levels and our beloved LT5's. I'm going the mail order route. Hopefully the anxiety will cease!:hal:

That's an idea!
Chances are current level of ZDDP in Mobil 1 is most likely fine for our ohcs/tappets. Being 4 valves/head it's possibly not as stiff as typical worked on ohv motors. It's just that I tend to agonize myself when I find out what I filled with does not meet what was spec'd.
For now, I will add 2oz per 8.5 qts since the oil was changed 300 miles ago and somehow feel bad about draining it out.

[xlr8nflorida]

Marc,

On the registry there was a thread on ZDDP. I know you recommended Amsoil in the registry newsletter so I have a few questions.

1. Do you feel its a huge concern if one continues to use the Mobil Synthetic since its shy of the ZDDP or is it more for guys who crank up major mileage?

I belive that with about 100k miles of use, that there could be significant unnecessary wear on the lifters.


2. If you wanted to fix the zinc problem, would you go with Mobil 1 High Mileage or Mobil 1 Turbo and what weights would you recommend?

I'm not familiar with the EP additive levels for those products. I recommend the levels that are used in the SG formulation. The LT5 was designed for the SG formulation. I think that viscosity should not be greater than 40. For example 10W-40.


3. High Mileage Mobil is alittle shy of the Zinc numbers, would you add some ZDDP to the mix?

I would not. Why get into additive experimentation when there are several oil products that are designed to solve the EP problem with flat tappet engines.


4. I know ZDDP is an issue if you use too much but most ZR1 guys are running without cats etc.

It could cause other problems. I don't know for sure. I don't like to take risks when I don't know enough to calculate the risk.


Thanks for sharing and I'll share with the other guys once you respond.

Best regards.

Marc

[secondchance]

Thanks for taking this up with Marc.

[xlr8nflorida]

Thanks for taking this up with Marc.



Thanks for taking this up with Marc.

:cheers:

I wish Mobil had an oil that met the specs without additives. I didn't see the Turbo Mobil you mentioned on Mobil's site? Perhaps I overlooked it.

I believe Marc that Amsoil would be good in your motor. At the same time, I wonder if its better then Mobil 1 in other areas besides Zinc.

If you google alot, you find conflicting results on Mobil 1 and Amsoil.
I'm more inclined to stay with Mobil 1. They are factory fills for:

Corvette
Mercedes AMG
Mercedes SLR McLaren
Porsche
Aston Martin
Bentley

I think that says alot.

Who factory fills Amsoil? Also, the way they sell Amsoil is kind of odd to me?

I mean if its so great, there should be a better way to get it?

[bdw18_123]

:cheers:

I wish Mobil had an oil that met the specs without additives. I didn't see the Turbo Mobil you mentioned on Mobil's site? Perhaps I overlooked it.

I believe Marc that Amsoil would be good in your motor. At the same time, I wonder if its better then Mobil 1 in other areas besides Zinc.

If you google alot, you find conflicting results on Mobil 1 and Amsoil.
I'm more inclined to stay with Mobil 1. They are factory fills for:

Corvette
Mercedes AMG
Mercedes SLR McLaren
Porsche
Aston Martin
Bentley

I think that says alot.

Who factory fills Amsoil? Also, the way they sell Amsoil is kind of odd to me?

I mean if its so great, there should be a better way to get it?

I tend to agree. Why is it not sold in stores? Wouldn't they make more money with it easily accessible? I don't like having to order oil through the mail. Amsoil is expensive to begin with, then you have to add in shipping costs.

I'm not saying it's a bad oil, I'm sure it's really great stuff. It's just expensive and hard to get. I'll probably just use the gold-cap Mobil 1 full synthetic High mileage stuff in my Z, the ZDDP levels may not be fully up to spec, but I think it's close enough. It's better than the regular Mobil 1 full synth stuff anyway.

Plus, my ZR-1 already has a high mileage engine and it's no garage queen so I'm willing to risk it. I don't have the money right now to do any upgrades, I just want to get it drivable. I'm sure that my LT5 could easily get to 200K miles no problem, maybe more. So with 140K on the clock now, I have a good 60K miles left at least, maybe even another 100K.

Now that I don't have my '93 LT1 anymore, I'm finding it really sucks not having a 'vette to drive. :cry:

[secondchance]

:cheers:

I wish Mobil had an oil that met the specs without additives. I didn't see the Turbo Mobil you mentioned on Mobil's site? Perhaps I overlooked it.

I believe Marc that Amsoil would be good in your motor. At the same time, I wonder if its better then Mobil 1 in other areas besides Zinc.

If you google alot, you find conflicting results on Mobil 1 and Amsoil.
I'm more inclined to stay with Mobil 1. They are factory fills for:

Corvette
Mercedes AMG
Mercedes SLR McLaren
Porsche
Aston Martin
Bentley

I think that says alot.

Who factory fills Amsoil? Also, the way they sell Amsoil is kind of odd to me?

I mean if its so great, there should be a better way to get it?

Well, there is this outfit "Paradise Garage" that did testing on both Mobil 1 and Amsoil.
According to their test result, based on sample analysis, Amsoil 5W30 viscosity starts higher than Mobil 1 and continue to thicken.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

This is another one of those situation where you make the best guess possible (after all all these companies could be buying the same base PAO stock and juicing it with their own additives - maybe even "Marvel Mystery Oil) and as long as nothing detrimental happens you figure you were right - "Right until proven wrong!":icon_scra

In summary, it seems we have 3 options:
1. Use Amsoil AMO 10W40
2. Use Mobil 1 and spike with a dash(2oz) of ZDDPlus or Redline Supplement
3. Wait for Mobil 1 Turbo Blend

One thing I learned out of all this is 800 ppm phosphorus content may cause issue down the road!

Another interesting item is, according to sample analysis, they seem to find more metal particles in oil during the first 3,000 miles! According to these guys "This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119".

I wonder if this is just left over particles that did not drain showing up as soon a new oil is filled and suspended.

Should I be looking for 3,000 mile old Amsoil AMO 10W40 for the ultimate in engine protection???

[xlr8nflorida]

I've seen all those reports and then some - it gets tiring.

Not sure if you know this but Amsoil gets their base oil from Mobil 1.

[secondchance]

Not sure if you know this but Amsoil gets their base oil from Mobil 1.

Somehow I am not surprised.

The fact that Mobil 1 is used as factory fill for so many brand is indicative that they have wholeheartedly responded to needs of auto manufacturers, namely reformulate to help them meet longer warranty on catalytic converters per EPA demand.

I compared Mobil 1 and Amsoil test sample reading side by side at 5,000 miles namely because that is the mileage I change my oil. In general Mobil 1 seems to have higher metal particle (aluminum, chromium, iron, copper, etc...) which, I believe, are good indication of internal degradation. Phosphorus count starts with Amsoil being about 200 ppm higher and finishes at 5,000 mile with about 60 ppm more than Mobil. As for zinc. count, Amsoil starts at 1113 vs. Mobil at 819 and pretty much stays constant to 5,000 miles.

What is interesting is Moil 1 has "Molybdenum", another anti-metal wear agent where Amsoil has none. It seems Mobil 1, while reducing zinc and phosphorus, seems to have introduced Nolybdenum, another anti-wear agent, to offset their reduction of zinc and phosphorus.

Based on this comparison, and I am not a mechanical engineer but, Amsoil (at least comparing basic 5W30 wts) seems to result in less internal degradation that can be documented via oil analysis (at least in a
LS1 Camaro).:dontknow:

[xlr8nflorida]

Somehow I am not surprised.

The fact that Mobil 1 is used as factory fill for so many brand is indicative that they have wholeheartedly responded to needs of auto manufacturers, namely reformulate to help them meet longer warranty on catalytic converters per EPA demand.

I compared Mobil 1 and Amsoil test sample reading side by side at 5,000 miles namely because that is the mileage I change my oil. In general Mobil 1 seems to have higher metal particle (aluminum, chromium, iron, copper, etc...) which, I believe, are good indication of internal degradation. Phosphorus count starts with Amsoil being about 200 ppm higher and finishes at 5,000 mile with about 60 ppm more than Mobil. As for zinc. count, Amsoil starts at 1113 vs. Mobil at 819 and pretty much stays constant to 5,000 miles.

What is interesting is Moil 1 has "Molybdenum", another anti-metal wear agent where Amsoil has none. It seems Mobil 1, while reducing zinc and phosphorus, seems to have introduced Nolybdenum, another anti-wear agent, to offset their reduction of zinc and phosphorus.

Based on this comparison, and I am not a mechanical engineer but, Amsoil (at least comparing basic 5W30 wts) seems to result in less internal degradation that can be documented via oil analysis (at least in a
LS1 Camaro).:dontknow:

Did you do these through blackstone labs or did you pull this copy from the web?

[tomtom72]

This is just a fwiw doing the mail order route. Yesterday i went to my Amsoil account and placed my first motor oil order.

One case/4gallons = $180.00 round numbers w/shipping. Ordered 11/11/09, shipped via UPS same day as ordered, arrival date via UPS tracking 11/12/09 or 11/13/09. Shipped from a PA distribution location. I'm in NYS, near NYC.

That isn't the end of the world. Heck I hate going to COSTCO and waiting on the lines! Turn around time isn't too bad at all. You could decide to change your oil, order it and have it all in the same week with a little planning. I figure my next order will be a case of qts, then I have inventory for a few changes on hand. I guess I'm saying that going with the Amsoil is doable and it isn't that much of a logistical pia.

:cheers:
Tom

[secondchance]

Did you do these through blackstone labs or did you pull this copy from the web?

I used analysis report done by Paradise Garage on the web. I believe they had Blackstone do the testing. I compared their testing of Mobil 1, 5W30 and Amsoil, 5W30, both at 5,000 miles.
As for the calculation, I used PPM count Crower is claiming when they are comparing ZDDPlus to GM EOS and Torco Zep. This calculation was based on 4oz added to 5 qts. I prorated and came up with a figure when added to 8.5 qts.

[secondchance]

This is just a fwiw doing the mail order route. Yesterday i went to my Amsoil account and placed my first motor oil order.

One case/4gallons = $180.00 round numbers w/shipping. Ordered 11/11/09, shipped via UPS same day as ordered, arrival date via UPS tracking 11/12/09 or 11/13/09. Shipped from a PA distribution location. I'm in NYS, near NYC.

That isn't the end of the world. Heck I hate going to COSTCO and waiting on the lines! Turn around time isn't too bad at all. You could decide to change your oil, order it and have it all in the same week with a little planning. I figure my next order will be a case of qts, then I have inventory for a few changes on hand. I guess I'm saying that going with the Amsoil is doable and it isn't that much of a logistical pia.

:cheers:
Tom

I hear you. Call me lazy but I just dread the thought of mail order, waiting, etc... I hate Costco too but my wife runs out there at least once every 2 weeks. Last tine I went, I memorized the aisle #, 123 for Leesburg store, so I can tell her where to find Mobil 1, 5W30.
Also, I know it's it's only about $40 difference including shipping but I find myself getting cheap as I am getting older.:mrgreen:
If i take the Mobil plus ZDDPlus route, it's $25 for 3 bottles good for 6 oil changes - 2 years of driving minimum!

[Scrrem]

I have been reading all these posts on oil over the past few months and decided to buy a case of Amsoil and give it a try. It's sitting in the garage, I just need to get time to get the oil changed. Since I am a motorcycle rider too, Amsoil has been toted for years in air cooled motors, so I figured, it can't hurt to run it in the Z!
Rich

[secondchance]

I have been reading all these posts on oil over the past few months and decided to buy a case of Amsoil and give it a try. It's sitting in the garage, I just need to get time to get the oil changed. Since I am a motorcycle rider too, Amsoil has been toted for years in air cooled motors, so I figured, it can't hurt to run it in the Z!
Rich

That is the right way to go it seems. It's just too much pain in the butt for me.
Also, I must have been brainwashed by Mobil marketing...
I just like the convenience of being able to find a quart whenever I need it - like on a middle of a interstate somewhere.
I think I will stay w/ Mobil 1, 5W30 and add 2oz of this magic stuff. Way I see it, at worst it won't do anything (only 2 oz!) and at least help me put my mind at ease.:dontknow:

[xlr8nflorida]

This makes for interesting reading and supports that when you put additives into the oil, you just don't know exactly what you are getting. Although, testing of your oil of course is a good idea.

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/c3-technical-performance/109893-shell-rotella-t-oil-flat-tappet-engines.html

I'm going to go with Mobil 1 10-30 High Mileage and call it a day.

[bdw18_123]

This makes for interesting reading and supports that when you put additives into the oil, you just don't know exactly what you are getting. Although, testing of your oil of course is a good idea.

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/c3-technical-performance/109893-shell-rotella-t-oil-flat-tappet-engines.html

I'm going to go with Mobil 1 10-30 High Mileage and call it a day.

That's what I'm gonna do too.

[secondchance]

This makes for interesting reading and supports that when you put additives into the oil, you just don't know exactly what you are getting. Although, testing of your oil of course is a good idea.

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/c3-technical-performance/109893-shell-rotella-t-oil-flat-tappet-engines.html

I'm going to go with Mobil 1 10-30 High Mileage and call it a day.

You should be fine.
Nonetheless, this was a very interesting education for me.
Live and learn...

[PhillipsLT5]

Just put in the AmsOil and be done with it unless you know more than Marc

[xlr8nflorida]

Just put in the AmsOil and be done with it unless you know more than Marc

Nobody claimed to know more then Marc which is why I emailed him.
That being said if you read Marc's article he is not pushing Amsoil hard, he just wants an oil that meets the specifications.

I read all the articles and take away my own opinions. For example in Hib's article he mentions the Rotella. My Dad runs engines that are several hundred thousand a piece and he uses Rotella and Blackwater. He has never lost an engine in several years of heavy commercial use. At the same time, he is using the Diesel Rotella which is different that Gas Rotella. My experience has been Mobil 1. I've run it in 3 corvettes, all well over 100,000 miles. My compression was incredible, the engine was clean as a whistle and my engines ran like raped ape. Therefore I'm a big fan of Mobil 1. They are factory fill and they support racing in a big way. I don't feel comfortable when I read all the Amsoil tests because quite frankly most are not truly independent tests. For example Royal Purple, people used to swear by that oil as well and now there are many people who say the Royal Purple is nothing special.

Why does Amsoil basically use a MLM approach to selling? If its that good people will pay right? Why is it not readily available?

I have no bones to pick just passing out information as I obtain it, just like alot of other individuals in this thread. I think everybody has probably learned a thing or two - I know I have.

In my case, my ZR-1 sees limited mileage, I could probably put walmart oil in it and it would make no difference. I provided the information for more of the drivers because quite frankly I think you could use regular 10W-30 and get 100k no problem - yeah you might have some lifter wear but who here is driving their car that much?

Now for any of you Mobil 1 Fans out there, I thought I would pass this information along to you:

Advance Auto Parts

Mobil 1 5 quarts and Mobil 1 filter for $29

ZR-1 oil change for $60 with 1 extra filter and 1 extra quart on your shelf

Priceless :mrgreen:

[secondchance]

Nobody claimed to know more then Marc which is why I emailed him.
That being said if you read Marc's article he is not pushing Amsoil hard, he just wants an oil that meets the specifications.

I read all the articles and take away my own opinions. For example in Hib's article he mentions the Rotella. My Dad runs engines that are several hundred thousand a piece and he uses Rotella and Blackwater. He has never lost an engine in several years of heavy commercial use. At the same time, he is using the Diesel Rotella which is different that Gas Rotella. My experience has been Mobil 1. I've run it in 3 corvettes, all well over 100,000 miles. My compression was incredible, the engine was clean as a whistle and my engines ran like raped ape. Therefore I'm a big fan of Mobil 1. They are factory fill and they support racing in a big way. I don't feel comfortable when I read all the Amsoil tests because quite frankly most are not truly independent tests. For example Royal Purple, people used to swear by that oil as well and now there are many people who say the Royal Purple is nothing special.

Why does Amsoil basically use a MLM approach to selling? If its that good people will pay right? Why is it not readily available?

I have no bones to pick just passing out information as I obtain it, just like alot of other individuals in this thread. I think everybody has probably learned a thing or two - I know I have.

In my case, my ZR-1 sees limited mileage, I could probably put walmart oil in it and it would make no difference. I provided the information for more of the drivers because quite frankly I think you could use regular 10W-30 and get 100k no problem - yeah you might have some lifter wear but who here is driving their car that much?

Now for any of you Mobil 1 Fans out there, I thought I would pass this information along to you:

Advance Auto Parts

Mobil 1 5 quarts and Mobil 1 filter for $29

ZR-1 oil change for $60 with 1 extra filter and 1 extra quart on your shelf

Priceless :mrgreen:

I agree! Subject such as this we can toss around what we dig up, discuss, learn from each other. But at the end of the day we decide for ourselves based on what we have learned.
Without running a fleet of LT5s up to 100,000 miles or more on various brands taking sample readings every 1000 miles or so, perhaps even followed by a tear down, there is no way to truly find out which brand/weight is superior.
My preference is to understand the subject best I can under the circumstance.

Thanks for the heads up on Advanced Auto Parts deal. Does Mobil 1 still make the oil filter for LT5? I thought they discontinued.

[xlr8nflorida]

I agree! Subject such as this we can toss around what we dig up, discuss, learn from each other. But at the end of the day we decide for ourselves based on what we have learned.
Without running a fleet of LT5s up to 100,000 miles or more on various brands taking sample readings every 1000 miles or so, perhaps even followed by a tear down, there is no way to truly find out which brand/weight is superior.
My preference is to understand the subject best I can under the circumstance.

Thanks for the heads up on Advanced Auto Parts deal. Does Mobil 1 still make the oil filter for LT5? I thought they discontinued.

I am not sure, I don't think so. I run the original black filters or a Bosch.
I run the Mobil 1's on my LT1 and LS1.
They will let you substitute up to a $12 filter, I believe.

I like the sharing of information and ideas. We have had some good threads going lately.

[Jim Nolan]

One thing I will add is when I bought my ZR-1 10 years ago I would get cam chain rattle on start about every 4th or 5th start up. After about my 3rd oil change on Mobil 1 it's gone away and has never appeared again. Maybe it had dino oil in it, I don't know but, I'll stick with what seems to work.