My clutch issue

[mgbrv8]

Okay I finally got a chance to pull my ZR1 tranny this weekend.
First off let me tell you what happened I was driving it back from the body shop when I depressed the clutch and it only traveled halfway and didn’t come up or down. I pulled the slave off and confirmed that hydraulics were not at fault.
When I got the tranny off I noticed the throw out bearing was grenaded and causing the travel issue. But the weird thing was that one flywheel screws was completely unthreaded and rattling around in the space between the clutch disk and the fadanza flywheel and three were threaded out 1/8th to 1/16th of an inch that would explain the strange sound I was hearing at ideal and on shifts. It seemed like it had some type of locktite on the threads so it makes me wonder if it was the wrong heat range locktite. Also there was evidence that the crank shaft idealer bearing was damaged in the past installation due to the needle bearings falling out when the transmission was removed it seems that there were alignment issues during the last installation causing the damage. I still need to check the transmission fluid for debris and dismantle the trans to look for damage. Needless to say where do I go from here? The clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing were valeo brand. I don’t think I want to go back with it. Also my fadanza flywheel has chatter markes on half of the clutch surface probably due to the loosened bolts on half of the flange. I need to put it on my granite surface table and used my height gauge to see if its warped. If it is warped what’s a recommended replacement. If it isn’t can these clutched be resurfaced? Now I don’t want to go back with a factory flywheel so I cant use the factory clutch what clutch should I used? Id like to use a clutch disk with springs in it. Also what idealer bearing do you guys recommend? Any advice, suggestions or resources would be greatly appreciated

[XfireZ51]

The Fidanza has a replaceable steel clutch face. You can order one from them. As for the clutch disc, you should use a sprung hub disc design like the LT-1 Camaro style. This helps absorb the vibrations from the motor to the ZF and minimize the gear clatter at idle. On the pressure plate bolts, I ordered the longer ones from SRP.

"Extended Length Pressure Plate Bolts
Custom length pressure plate bolts ensure adequate thread engagement (unlike OEM fasteners) when installing a Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel. Complete with over-sized ground washers and bottoming tap (additional thread cutting is required). For use with factory style LT5 pressure plate."

[tccrab]

Lots of good info here:

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4489
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1536

Measure the bolts on yours.
It is possible the wrong ones were used or just not torqued correctly.
Either way, something wasn't right.

TomC
"Crabs"

[Jeffvette]

But the weird thing was that one flywheel screws was completely unthreaded and rattling around in the space between the clutch disk and the fadanza flywheel and three were threaded out 1/8th to 1/16th of an inch that would explain the strange sound I was hearing at ideal and on shifts.

You are talking about the screws that hold the friction ring to the flywheel?

[mgbrv8]

Sorry for the late reply my internet is on the fritz. The bolts that are loose are the ones that hold the flywheel on to the crankshaft. And I really appriciate all the help so far.

Dave

[XfireZ51]

Sorry for the late reply my internet is on the fritz. The bolts that are loose are the ones that hold the flywheel on to the crankshaft. And I really appriciate all the help so far.

Dave

WOW! The bolts onto the crankshaft?? :jawdrop:

[mgbrv8]

Yup three were loose and one was off and the rest were holding. Would you guys recomend the needle bearing type or bronze type imput shaft bushings?

Dave

[jonszr1]

i like the bronze one .but if you use that one use no grease on it when installing the trans

[XfireZ51]

When I ordered pilot bearing from Chevy dealership, I got bronze bushing.

[Jeffvette]

Sorry for the late reply my internet is on the fritz. The bolts that are loose are the ones that hold the flywheel on to the crankshaft. And I really appriciate all the help so far.

Dave


Sounds like maybe the wrong size bolts were used. They should never back out. I would double check to see what the actual thread pitch and bolt size is.

Use the bronze fluted bushing.

[mgbrv8]

I cleaned the bolts and they felt good, no off axis movement, endplay or binding. The length might be the thing though I will check that out.

Dave

[mgbrv8]

When I was cleaning the c-beam I noticed that the center cross trusses braces were bent. I looked at my 1984 c-beam and it didnt have the bends. Is this normal or is it distorded?

Dave

[Hammer]

When I was cleaning the c-beam I noticed that the center cross trusses braces were bent. I looked at my 1984 c-beam and it didnt have the bends. Is this normal or is it distorded?

Dave

Holy **** Dave. I'd have to say that happened in the accident. I know it wasn't like that when they changed the clutch. Possibly the reason the other damage occured also although I know you had mentioned noise before, but dude, you drove that car over 10,000 miles. Think about it. Can you go back on your insurance company for repairs??

[mgbrv8]

Ya I could see how the wrinkle in the c-beam was caused by the rear end collision enven thought there was no chasis damage. But for the life of me I cant see how the accident caused the bolts to come loose and damage the throw out bearing. Also the strange noise stayed the same before and after the accident. I will say one thing though you old car is cleaning up nice. I hired a guy to help me with the clean up, I pull a part off and he cleans it so far its working great. I'll give you a call later though.

Dave

BTY John you have a nice avitar pic

[QB93Z]

I believe that the C-Beam on all ZR-1 have what appears to be bends in two of the diagonal portions. The C-Beams that I removed on all three ZR-1's that I worked on this fall were like that.

Here is the best picture that I could find:

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp152/QB93Z/2009%20Aug%20Crank%20Shaft%20Seal/DSC02293.jpg

Before you decide that your C-Beam has been damaged, lets get some more examples to compare to.

I will got check the ZR-1 on my lift right now and report what I find. Don't panic.


Jim

[QB93Z]

I just checked the C-Beam on my 1993 ZR-1. The two "truss" sections that you highlighted in your picture are "bent" on my car. I am sure the C-Beam in your picture is in proper condition.

I could not take a picture of the bends with the C-Beam on the car because the exhaust is in the way.

I remember seeing a C-Beam for sale at Corvettes at Carlisle last August and it had the bends also.

Jim

[Hammer]

Ya I could see how the wrinkle in the c-beam was caused by the rear end collision enven thought there was no chasis damage. But for the life of me I cant see how the accident caused the bolts to come loose and damage the throw out bearing. Also the strange noise stayed the same before and after the accident. I will say one thing though you old car is cleaning up nice. I hired a guy to help me with the clean up, I pull a part off and he cleans it so far its working great. I'll give you a call later though.

Dave

BTY John you have a nice avitar pic

Well maybe that beam could have been like that after all. I would have to say the installation may have been faulty, but I'm glad the car got you home and there isn't to much damage. I'm surprized at the crank bolts though. I don't think I've ever seen any come loose on anything before. I'm sure they have though. I didn't use the longer bolts in the pressure plate/flywheel, so if those make you uncomfortable, get the longer ones from Randy. I got the flywheel from Ultra Rev, they have the replacement facing for them too if you are going to replace it.
http://www.ultrarev.com

The avatars get better.

[flyin ryan]

Would you guys recomend the needle bearing type or bronze type imput shaft bushings?

DaveI put a Needle Pilot Bearing in my 90, but i've used both, often. Your choice...either or, not a big deal one way or the other.

[Scrrem]

When I was cleaning the c-beam I noticed that the center cross trusses braces were bent. I looked at my 1984 c-beam and it didnt have the bends. Is this normal or is it distorded?

Dave

Dave,
Mine just happens to be out at moment, so here you go. Mine looks the same.
Rich

[Hammer]

I'll be damned.

[mgbrv8]

Hey guys thanks for the prompted and detailed reply's. Sorry I didnt get back to you guys sooner but my club is getting things together for biggest car show for the year and today was hecktic. I really appriciate the pics they clairified everything. And also how may of you guys are running sprung clutch disks with your fadanza flywheels and did you notice a difference with the chatter? And what brand throwout bearings are you guys running the one that granaded in mine was from china but I couldnt find a brand name?


Again may thanks for all the help, you guys are making this alot easier

Dave

[mgbrv8]

What spung clutch disk would you guys use out these it you are useing a fadanza flywheel.

Dave

http://store.atechmotorsports.com/egnsearch.asp?SearchType=Make&N=710+4294924928+4294908216+4294908189+115+4294865 905

Also will a 1996 camero t56 throwout bearing work on my 91 zf with a fadanza clutch?

[Jagdpanzer]

Kurt White has one:
http://www.whiteracingproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200&products_id=858

I have been running one of Kurt's spring-hub clutch discs together with the original pressure plate for over a year now with no problems.

[mgbrv8]

Kurt White has one:
http://www.whiteracingproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200&products_id=858

I have been running one of Kurt's spring-hub clutch discs together with the original pressure plate for over a year now with no problems.



I think I will avoid that vendor like the plauge.

Dave

[tccrab]

I think I will avoid that vendor like the plauge.

Dave

Dave:

I suggest that you view that vendor as a necessary evil.
He had the foresight and the cash to jump when GM decided to quit supporting it's red headed step child.
He has the right to make a buck, same as everyone else.
On Wall Street the name of the game is to buy low and sell high.
It could have been, and could yet be, very much worse.
Only time will tell.

TomC
"Crabs"

[mgbrv8]

I appreciate your viewpoint Sir and your analogy is very accurate. I was speaking from personal experience. I will do my best to find and provide optional avenues for parts sourceing for myself and anyone that wants it.

Dave

[Jagdpanzer]

I think I will avoid that vendor like the plauge.

Dave

Just for your info I did a fair amount of research before buying this clutch disc and finally went with the supplier whom I determined had the right technical solution at the best value for what I was looking for.

[mgbrv8]

I just got my none china throw out bearing. My GM parts guy found it in canada of all places.

Dave

[Hammer]

I just got my none china throw out bearing. My GM parts guy found it in canada of all places.

Dave

Got a number on that Dave.

[mgbrv8]

I'll look it up John when I get home and email it to you friday.

dave

[rhipsher]

mgvrb8 I have the same setup as you Fidanza/stock preasure plate but the difference is I have a Centerforce sprung disk. I went to Fastenal and got 7/16-20 X 1.25 long for the crank shaft and 3/8-16 X 2.125 long all grade 8 preasure bolts and have had no problems at all. I used the green locktite for the crank shaft bolts.

[Paul Workman]

By way of our brother Hammer, a suggestion from brother Marc H (?) is that the bolts that come w/ the Fidanza FW are short by 1/4". If memory serves, the bolts holding the FW to the crankshaft are:

GRADE 8, 7/16" x 20 x 1-1/4" instead of the 1" ones that come w/ the FW.

Some kind of LockTite would be in order as well, I'm sure

_____________

Correction:

Don't be lead astray... Contrary to some (Summit)** information, :blahblah: the Center Force #CTF-384100 does not have a sprung hub; rather it is intended as the direct replacement for the stock ZR-1 disc using the dual mass FW and PP. (Guess how I know this??:mad:)

As mentioned later in this thread, the correct disc for the Fidanza Al FW and the stock ZR-1 pressure plate is the CTF-381039. (Note: the (Summit) CTF-381039 description indicates the disc as a replacement for the stock disc used in the 93-97 Camaro and Firebird with the LT1 (as mentioned by Dom.)


**PS: I wrote Summit a letter detailing the error in their description, and they may have corrected it by now.

P.

[Hammer]

By way of our brother Hammer, a suggestion from brother Marc H (?) is that the bolts that come w/ the Fidanza FW are short by 1/4". If memory serves, the bolts holding the FW to the crankshaft are:

GRADE 8, 7/8" x 20 x 1-1/4" instead of the 1" ones that come w/ the FW.

GRADE 8, 7/16" x 20 x 1-1/4"

Some kind of LockTite would be in order as well, I'm sure
Locktite red is recommended in the FSM.


As for sprung clutch disc, Center Force #CTF-384100 is specifically designed to interface between the Fidanza Al FW and the stock ZR-1 pressure plate.

Several mentioned too that Carolina Clutch's "Stage-II" is worth a look as well. (Sorry...no part number for the CC).

I will report back when the Carolina Clutch disc is installed. I'm using the fluted bronze pilot bushing.

[Paul Workman]

GRADE 8, 7/16" x 20 x 1-1/4"


Locktite red is recommended in the FSM.


I will report back when the Carolina Clutch disc is installed. I'm using the roller bearing pilot bushing, also recommended by Marc.

7/16" (check!)

Red LockTite (check!)

Roller bearing pilot bushing (check!)....

Thanks for the edit;), my friend. Think things are shaping up...including the weather!

Dayam....Is it SPRING YET?????


p.

[Hammer]

I'm using the fluted bronze pilot bushing now. Jeffvette insisted.

[Paul Workman]

Hot-rodding is like walking in strange, deep dark woods - filled with all manners of hazards to be encountered. Thank goodness a few have gone before and left notes along the way; notes like, "Beware of quicksand!!" ;)

If I had all this 500 hp package to do all over again, I would still do it, but I would have done a few things differently! (and not had so much quicksand in my underwear either!:rolleyes:).

And, thanks for the notes along the way, buddy!

P.

[LT5-Lee]

I would suggest getting the longest bolts possible that hold the trans to the bell housing and cut the heads off and use them as guide studs to keep from destroying the throwout bearing during installation even with a transmission jack. and.... just when you need that extra 1/2" to 3/4" to close the gap to feed the input shaft into the "fluted bronze bushing, have a buddy push in on the clutch while pushing & jiggling it. Resist the temptation to use a bolt to force it on.

Also make sure there is not a major burr scratched out of the soft aluminum bell housing (in front & top of slave cylinder cavity) from too much weight being placed on the clutch fork during the first trans. R&R as that is what caused Rick's problems with a broken throwout bearing and bent slave cylinder shaft.

Lee

[Hammer]

We used the front c-beam bolts as alignment tools. They worked fantastic.